[Andy Hughes]

On another thread, Matt W has called me out, asking me to assign a Doak Score to a course we are bickering about. Now, I have been around a little while here, and have I believe finally picked up on the fact that contrary to golf, a higher score seems to be a good thing, and that a 6 is better than a 3.
But beyond that, how the heck is a 'Doak Score' derived?  Please, don't tell Matt, as he will find out I am a fool and a knave, but could someone at least point me in the right direction?
Mucho gracias.

[Kevin_Reilly]

It is spelled out in the Confidential Guide.  Someone could list it here, but I think many take the position that the scale is part of a copyrighted work.

Though if you check the archives I believe someone at one time listed it.

[TEPaul]

Andy:

If you want to know how the Doak Scale works for God's sake don't ask Matt Ward---he doesn't have a clue. Ask Tom Doak himself---he's actually a participant and contributor on here!  

[Mike_Sweeney]

7 really good and what most joes and janes think is a 10

Doak states that a 7 is worth seeing if you are within 100 miles, and I use this as my baseline. Huntington Valley Golf Club and Misquamacut are my perfect 7's. They are roughly 100 miles from me in opposite directions from NYC, are completely different, and I would love to see either again.

However unlike Matt, I am not that concerned with the yardages of unopened courses on the opposite side of the world !

[Andy Hughes]

If you want to know how the Doak Scale works for God's sake don't ask Matt Ward---he doesn't have a clue. Ask Tom Doak himself---he's actually a participant and contributor on here

Tom, that's why asked very quietly, hoping Matt wouldn't hear  me!
Tom Doak, if you are listening, is redanman's summation close enough?
Thanks redanman!

[cary lichtenstein]

6: ok, but not worth playing
7: 50-100 on the top 100 lists
8: 20-50   "    "      "
9: 10-20
10: 1-10

If you use Golfweek which has 2 lists, I think there would be 20 that rate a 10

Maybe 20 that rate a 9, etc

[Paul_Turner]

Tom's scale was/is different form everyone elses because it was weighted to descriminate between the good and best.

Personally I find most 4s (above average) in The Confidential guide well worth playing.  If you only play 6s and above then you're missing a lot of very good golf.

The Golf Week numbers appear to be less descriminating, probably because it's only for US courses and 200 are picked.

[redanman]

Andy

Mr. Doak literally says that 3 is the average course in the world.  Mr. Turner is correct in that 4's and 5's are worth playing in that they might be too short for the bomber or only have a few really great holes, etc.  Part of the fun is finding the good stuff on a four you've never heard of and might never have seen.  Mr. Doak gets around.  

If you limit yourself to 7's and above, you miss a lot - in fact, you're probably just notching your belt.

_____________________________________

Talking about puddles......This rain yesterday was something.  

For those that know Lehigh CC #13 was 100% under water and at one point 90% of the 11th green was, too.


For #12 (below) the water was up to the cart path



p.s. Lehigh earned a Doak 7, somehow.

_______________________________

Some UK Doak #'s (And a couple of Ireland's, too)


4
Kilspindie


5
St A New and Eden
Luffness New (aka Muirfield Jr. and deserving of it-across the road from Gullane) pretty flat & a little short                         but really good
Longniddry
Stoke Poges (Goldfinger)

6
Gleneagle Queen
Moortown
Little Aston
The Berkshire
Wentworth
Royal Cinque Ports (Deal)
Saunton


7
Machrihanisch
GE King
Western Gailes
Formby
Notts
Royal Birkdale
Royal Liverpool
Alwoodley
Sunningdale New
West Sussex (With the comment "Don't miss this course".)
Woking
Addington
Cty Sligo (Irl)

Elite company

8
Cruden Bay
Carnoustie
North Berwick West (my birthplace?)
Prestwick
Royal Troon
Royal Lytham
Ganton
Woodhall Spa
Swinley Forest
Royal St Georges
Portmarnock (Irl)
Lahinch (Irl)

[cary lichtenstein]

4,5 and 6's

Give me 5 courses that are 4,5, and 6's worth playing. I'm sure there are plenty of 6's, but I can thnk most are just average and not worth spendiing half a day.

[Paul_Turner]

Refering to Tom Doak's book:

Wentworth, Salem, Gullane, Kennemer, Baltusrol Upper

There are dozens of them.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Enniscrone was a 5 by Doak, but has been re worked since. Don't miss it IMHO.

Nairin and Portnoo is probably the #3 course on my Ireland list to see and Doak has it a 4. Maybe that will bring Ran out of sebatical.

Locally I would give TallGrass no more than a 5 or maybe a 6 on a perfect day, yet I love that place (on an uncrowded day).

Ross courses that I would not give more than a 6 but would never miss:

Wianno
Bald Peak

According to Doak:

Aronimink 6
Gulph Mills 5
Fos Chapel 6
Merion West 4

In Maine, Mr Moore has finally agreed with my passion for Cape Arundel, but I doubt either of us would put it more than a 6.

As Paul said.................

Did you see the Pacific Grove pictures  ??!!!

[cary lichtenstein]

Gullane is a hidden gem, and from my memory 15 years ago when I played it, it was way better than a 6

[Tom_Doak]

The Doak scale is a relative thing.  I like to think of it as somewhat similar to quantum levels of quality.  But to answer the original question, redanman's summary is pretty much dead on, with Paul Turner's caveats.

Cary:  Gullane is "way better" than a 6 on your scale?  Fine for the Cary scale.  But do you really think it should be an 8 on my scale?  Have you played a bunch of the 8's to know what you are comparing it to?

I'm in New York and not near my book.  Can someone please list some of the 7's and 8's for Cary so he can see where he is trying to place Gullane?

[Robert Emmons]

I was wondering when you were going to respond...How did the course drain...RHE

[Tom_Doak]

There are a few small puddles but it's just fine ... it poured rain from 11 am to 1 pm, and we went back out and rebuilt the first green between 3 and 5.

[Robert Emmons]

Its always good to know the course can drain naturally...We had about 3 inches here in Huntington...RHE

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