How much is too much?

[Dale_McCallon]

I was just looking at a few things on Doak's website and on his description of Stonewall, one of his trademarks of the course was to build a course that members would only play once or twice a week.  He also said that in the commissioning of the course, it was being built for serious golfers.

So are there rules of etiquette on how much golf is too much at clubs?  I play 99% of my golf on public tracks, and see the same crew of regulars just about every time I'm there and I've never thought much about it.

Maybe I'm just naive, but it seems like if I pay my initiation, pay my dues, and follow all the club rules I should get to play as often as I like.  Are you not a serious golfer if you play all the time?

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

I bet they were referring to the fact that much of the Stonewall membership is from Philly, and the club is not just a quick jaunt from Philly proper.  Most members probably come out a couple times a week, or some may come out and stay for a couple days in the onsite lodging.

Just my first thoughts (not being a member there or anything myself)

[Steve_ Shaffer]

For most members of Stonewall, it is a second or third club. I believe the founders came from Waynesborough and Aronimink and some other clubs, seeking a less crowded golfing environment. There are no tee times. Walking is required on the Old Course. The new Udder Course has carts available. Total rounds per year are significantly less than most private clubs in the area.

Steve

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Steve, is it really Udder Course?  What other parts of animal anatomy might be pressed into golfing service?  

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Mark

Stonewall's logo is a cow head with golf clubs held in the mouth. The site is a former dairy farm hence the Udder Course.

Steve

[Mark_F]

Mark,

I'm sure if Desmond Muirhead designed the 3rd eighteen, they'd no doubt struggle to go past the "The Horse's Arse".

[Dale_McCallon]

I wonder if the membership is too refined to say....

"I really sucked on the Udder today."

[Scott_Burroughs]

The club went against Doak's wishes in naming what became the Udder course.  He wanted to pay tribute to what he consider the best course of his mentor:  "Teat of the Cow".

[Tom_Doak]

Officially, it's called the North course.  Unofficially, there are many members who prefer the Udder.

Dale, most of the members are members somewhere else.  Two of the founders are on the board at Pine Valley, and they rue the fact that Pine Valley is so crowded with guest play that you can't just decide to go play it on a nice Saturday ... so they wanted to set up Stonewall so you'd never have to worry about it being too crowded.

To do this you have to build a golf course that doesn't cost too much to build or maintain ... that can be run effectively by a small staff ... for members who aren't too fussy about multiple people waiting on them ... and which is far enough out of town that people aren't going to drive out there 4-5 days a week, but will play somewhere else part of the time.  It's a great formula, but it's hard to pull off; I'm proud to have been involved with a club that actually made it work.

[Dale_McCallon]

I did not intend to start a thread questioning Stonewall's policy.  It sounds like a great course with members of very good standing.

But go back to the root of my question?  Can a member wear out his welcome simply by playing too much?  Throw Stonewall out of the equation.  Example--lets say a person is a member of Shinnecock Hills and stays in the Hamptons during the summer.  If he showed up every day do people frown upon this?

[Tom_Doak]

There are rare clubs where everyday attendance would be frowned upon.  Very few, but there are some.

[TEPaul]

This may be aprocryphal but the story around here was Jack May who basically founded Stonewall wanted a strictly walking course, ABSOLUTELY no exceptions. Then after a number of years Jack got sort of old and said he now had to take a cart but the members said; "ABSOLUTELY NO EXCPETIONS JACK, so Jack said OK, then I'm gonna build another 18 next door and so the UDDER or North course just came into being.

MarkR;

I could be wrong about this but the Stonewall South logo is cow with a golf club in it's mouth and the UDDER course logo, I believe I saw, is the rear of a cow with a golf club under its tail.

[TEPaul]

Man, what a great idea! Can you imagine how successful the club would be?

For $10,000 annual dues you could use the club only one day a week.
For $20,000 annual dues you could use it only two days a week.
And so on and so one up to $70,000 annual dues we'd be more than happy to have you here every day of the week!
That way you could potentially tell your wife every day; "Honey I just can't afford not to play golf today!"

Why didn't I think of that??

[TEPaul]

Boy, this idea would be tremendous. You could even structure it so any member could change his due structure every year. That way you could tell your wife; "Honey, you know I'm on that #70,000 annual dues deal so I have to play every day but you'd only be on the $10,000 annual deal and you could go see your mistress six days a week  for an entire year!

This would be a blowout success!! Am I a marketer supreme or what?

[paul cowley]

what.....?

[Gene Greco]

One member at The Maidstone had his name brought up for "review" because he was "too visible" at the club during his first year of membership.

His membership was "saved" by one of the controlling families.

[Mark_F]

As an adjunct to this question, are there any clubs, well known especially, that insist upon a minimum number of rounds per annum?

I've heard the same story from several people connected with various Sandbelt clubs, that around fifty percent of the membership would only be seen 6 or less times a year, another quarter maybe a dozen times or less, with the rest making more regular play.  

If you're going to belong to a golf club...

[tonyt]

Discretion would be a big part of members who fall foul of club good-books. If the same dude is always there when you arrive to play, always there when you leave, and you can't go there without seeing him lap up the facilities in the extreme, that may be looked at differently from somebody who plays almost as frequently, but arrives then plays then departs. Consistently hanging around the clubhouse precinct often adds to the chagrin of other members at very private clubs.

[Chris Kane]

Mark, that would be about right.  Most of the sandbelt clubs have memberships of between 800-1200, which would be unworkable if too many were active.  Apparantly at one of the clubs, only 1/3 of the members have valid handicaps - I'm very sceptical about this, but it tells a story in itself.