[JakaB]

I'm wondering who is it you guys listen to when it comes to searching out a given course.....are you a Ward/Shivas guy....a Tommy/MacWood guy...a Cirba/redanman guy.......not to leave anyone out.....but who is your all-star.....the guy who when he tells you it is good you put it in the vault.

[RJ_Daley]

Not to slight anyone, because there are more than a dozen people I am inclined to value their opinions without too much questioning, but Slag Bandoon would be one of my top consiglieri.

[JakaB]

If I'm taking my wife along...I'm going with quassi baby.   He makes me smile with every review...a true breath of all-star fresh air.

[ForkaB]

JB

How can you develop allegiances when these guys change bag tags as often as The Donald changes wives or bunker sand?  My fave GW guy recently defected to GD and I'm torn to bits over which rag to support.  It's hell being a rater groupie!

[Scott_Burroughs]

My fave GW guy recently defected to GD

Me too.  Same guy.

My fave Allstar rater is not with GW (not above guy).

Unfortunately, neither guy posts much any more.

[JakaB]

I can't even believe what I like....hell, I liked Torrey Pines more than Barona and I didn't even include the hotel architecture.   But I can tell you this....every single golfer in the history of my participation in the game that would take the time to listen to my opinion would also like Torrey more than Barona.....this site excluded.   It just could be my midwestern rearing cause they would also like Kemper more than Rustic....and I wouldn't blink any eye saying it..

[Joel_Stewart]

I'm not a golfweek rater but if anyone I know says its good I'll generally research it and try to go play it.  I will ask the question "who is the architect"?  If they say its good and its RTJ Jr. or Rees as an example, I'll do a little research to see if its worth my while.  Housing developments and the commercial architects will normally put it a low on my list.

[Scott_Burroughs]

I can't even believe what I like

Why?  Do you need confirmation from people on this site to believe what you like?

I know I don't. I know there are some courses that get bad reviews here that I know I like and vice versa.

[THuckaby2]

Barney, I know.  That's what I've been saying.  I know of one top flight career amateur who has probably played in 20 Amateurs, a few Opens, has been shown at length playing golf on television in a tournament and has played in all the big tournaments and everywhere in the world who thinks Rich HArvest is among the top 10 courses in the world!

Most guys prefer Bob O' Link to ANYTHING in Chicago.  

Nobody "gets" Shoreacres unless there isn't a soul out there -- at which point they suddenly love it.  Most guys think Seth Raynor is Ray Raynor's illegitimate kid from a tryst with a Jewish girl.

 They prefer Point O' Woods to Lost Dunes.  

Most everybody who has ever expressed an opinion says they "loved Chicago Golf" but the course wasn't the reason why.  

Most people prefer Hazeltine to Interlachen.

Most people prefer that TPC course outside Detroit to Plum Hollow.  

I'd bet a lot of money that more people in SoCal like Pelican Hill than Rustic Canyon by at least 5-1.

They'd all KILL to play Shadow Creek and Trump National.

None of them would drive 12 hours from Chicago to play Sand Hills for a week.    
 
And none of them has ever heard of Wild Horse, Maidstone, Fischer's Island or Friar's Head.

This post should be freakin' bronzed, as the reality check for one and all regarding damn near every discussion on this board.  I agree with every single word of it and in fact, it's the gist of what I've been trying to get across for my entire time of participation here... That is that this board is great and all, but as far out of touch with the real world as is that great balladeer Ozzie Osborne.  

BTW Dave, I hated Chicago Golf Club and loved the golf course there.  That must be a first, huh?

TH

[Steve_Roths]

Shivas,

I thank God that none of these people know how good we have it.  I would rather they want to play some TPC course than my Wildhorse or Fishers or Garden or etc.......

[Michael Moore]

Despite Matt Ward's overemphasis on ratings and argumentation, the quantity and quality of his reviews blow away the field. The absence of pictures allow the reader to engage his imagination and to focus on the salient characteristics of the course in question.

Surely golf is about more than so-called "shot values", but it takes a great deal more effort to write about those than it does to post a photo of an ugly course by a popular architect and go "ha ha".

[JakaB]

I can't even believe what I like

Why?  Do you need confirmation from people on this site to believe what you like?

No....but one of the reasons everytime I look over when driving alone the Devil is riding shotgun.. is that I can be influenced to the bad much easier than to the good.   I fight and fight not to let the people on this site keep me from places I just might enjoy.....Torrey South being the exact case.   I don't think anyone...with the exception of Ward and MacWood...can say that if they hear something over and over and over it just might not sway their opinion.   I am weak and need to be careful what I believe...be it from my mind or someone elses lips..

[THuckaby2]

That's interesting, John.  I had a similar take on this question.  That is, I can't point to any one person who's the "vault" for me - I honestly do respect and value all opinions here.  But it got me to thinking also, are there any opinions I'd trust so much such that if they told me a course sucked I wouldn't play there?

And the answer to that is no.  I also don't find I have to fight it very much.  Saying a course sucks often makes me want to see it MORE... if that makes any sense... Of course many times choices have to be made, so one does go with the courses viewed positively... But I've yet to change any plans based on someone saying a course sucked.

But that might also be because I tend to find something to like in any golf course, and I like a challenge keeping this intact.

TH

[Joel_Stewart]

Most guys prefer Bob O' Link to ANYTHING in Chicago.  

It has the best membership in the country, why wouldn't anybody like it, it's a frat party.

[Jeff Goldman]

How can you have a decent frat party with no girls?

[Gene Greco]

For Chise sakes!

I should be a GOLFWEEK rater. I'd be an All Star!

Afterall, I slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[Mike_Cirba]

I must admit, I'm truly disappointed that I haven't received a single vote yet.  

Then again, I'm probably losing polling percentages based simply on my recent inactivity.  

I also want to know how I've been placed in the "redanman" school of rating?  I couldn't carry his jockstrap, frankly...the guy sees things that escape most and he's not afraid to say what he thinks.

I've been trying all week to post my thoughts on a new course by Kelly Moran, named "Morgan Hill", but shoot...I've been busy as heck.  Perhaps an interesting, verbose thread like I'm capable of will shoot me up in the rankings.  

As I think about this a little bit, I can honestly say that if Paul Turner told me to check out a course, I'd put it to the top of my list.  

[Jeff Fortson]

Tom Huckaby wrote:

"This post should be freakin' bronzed, as the reality check for one and all regarding damn near every discussion on this board.  I agree with every single word of it and in fact, it's the gist of what I've been trying to get across for my entire time of participation here... That is that this board is great and all, but as far out of touch with the real world as is that great balladeer Ozzie Osborne."


Tom, the reason most people like those courses Shivas mentioned over the ones we praise in here is a simple one.....

Those people are uneducated, blind, babbling, ignorant morons.  Call me a snob if you have to but anyone who thinks Pelican Hill is better than Rustic must be dabbling in the use of powerful psychadelics.


Jeff F.

[JakaB]

Cirba,

Have you and redanman ever had a difference of opinion that he didn't eventually get you to come over to his side....and...don't worry about Morgan Hill...redanman didn't have the balls to do a write up on Cowboys either....

Oh yea....If a critic sees what no one else does...does it even exist as an architectural feature.   Or in the case of redanman is it what he doesn't see that makes him an all-star..

[Jim_Kennedy]

Jeff Fortson writes:

Tom, the reason most people like those courses Shivas mentioned over the ones we praise in here is a simple one.....
Those people are uneducated, blind, babbling, ignorant morons.  Call me a snob if you have to but anyone who thinks Pelican Hill is better than Rustic must be dabbling in the use of powerful psychadelics.

The "uneducated, blind, babbling, ignorant morons" you mention are only reading what the "uneducated, blind, babbling, ignorant morons" wrote about those same courses.
Thankfully we at least have Golfweek's Classic list.

[DMoriarty]

The "uneducated, blind, babbling, ignorant morons" you mention are only reading what the "uneducated, blind, babbling, ignorant morons" wrote about those same courses.
Thankfully we at least have Golfweek's Classic list.

Jim,  I really doubt Jeff meant to exclude raters and golf writers from his strong assessment.  

[HamiltonBHearst]

I would run to any course reommended by Pat Mucci or Tommy Naccaratto or Matt Ward.  I doubt either is a rater,being gentlemen  they probably do not have to play the access card.

I appreciate Pat for his keen eye and for his fairness and sense of fair play.  He would never "rate" a course based on any pre-conceived notions or biases.  His long description of one of the Trump courses was one of the best on this site.  He combines a keen eye, with knowledge of shot values derived over his  years of competitive golf.

I would also run to any course in which Tommy Naccaratto recommended.  Yes, Tommy has biases, but he is clearly open about them.  He can also explain how his opinions have been formulated and why.  He also has a passion for the discipline that is just wonderful.  I can't imagine not being excited about any course Tommy is excited about.  He was the reason I found this site after reading the SI article.

I rarely agree with Matt Ward on his reviews but at least he takes the time to play the courses before commenting.

[JakaB]

Hammy,

Tommy is an all-star...but what courses are you talking about.   What courses has Tommy found you that are not already on the access seekers lists that you so despise.

I agree about Mucci and was very impressed with the Mucci Oregon run he made a few years back.....did he even recommend Sand Pines...you gotta love that.  

Ward is without peer....he might even win the MVP of the all-star game...I just wish he would have stuck with Golf Digest.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

John/jaka b I usually form my own opinions. However, while I may disagree with some of the guys on here from time to time, all have great ideas. I love to hear thoughts and views about different courses. I have treasured meeting many of the people on here.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Thanks for the kind words Hammy. Its appreciated, and John brings up a good point about Pat at Sandpines. As much as I dislike Sandpines, if I was in Florence with the family and staying there for the week that we did for how many years (The family has decided for the time being to halt the activity of the Oregon Coast because of the pain of departed family members. I can't even get my cousin to go for a return to Bandon!) I would play Sandpines again, just for the shifts and giggles and to refresh my memory of just how bad it really is, as well as the lost opportunities that exist there.

And Hammy is right, I do have my biases and have worked hard at forming them!

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