Merion, PCC, and Rolling Green

[RE Blanks]

I will be in Philadelphia next week playing Merion Monday, PCC Tue, and Rolling Green Wed.  Not to mention Monday Night football after Merion.  Anyone have any thoughts, info, favorites, etc on the above mentioned courses?  I have been on the Merion property before but never played and it looks fantastic.  PCC also looks great but everyone keeps telling me that Rolling Green might be the best of the bunch.  

[wsmorrison]

RE,

That is a great trip, afterwards I look forward to your assessment.  Try to squeeze a game at Huntingdon Valley while you're here.  If you would like to meet at any point during your stay, I'd be happy to show you some of the materials and findings Tom Paul and I have collected in our research on Flynn.  I'll share my views on the courses when/if we get together.  Drop me an IM or email.  By the way, by PCC, do you mean Phila Country or Cricket? If Country, you're getting a fine look at area Flynns (they're all good).  

[Chris_Clouser]

I doubt that PCC and Rolling Green measure up to Merion, but they can't be far behind.  I was shown around both PCC and RG last year by Wayne Morrison, along with Craig Disher and Mike Malone.  PCC is a much more wide open course and Rolling Green seemed to have many more trees.  

Wayne could probably give you much better feedback, but the sense that I got from being at both sites was that PCC might be a little more tactical in the location of the bunkers.  But the use of the terrain was similar between the two courses.  The one major difference are the remains of the Maxwell contouring on several of the greens at PCC.  

But both courses were very solid and were both a treat to see and gain a very rudimentary understanding of Flynn and his work.  

[RE Blanks]

I played at HV last year and loved it.  I played Pine Valley the following day and I think HV is a tougher test.  Maybe I played better at PV.  HV is an all timer.  Great holes on a piece of property made for golf.  I loved it.  PCC is a reference to Country Club not Cricket Club.  Sorry.  HV is the only Flynn I have played to date and it ranks up there with anything I have played.  Can't wait for RG and PCC.  

[mike_malone]

 I would admire how the terrain was used in each.It is just a pleasure to play courses like these that roll along the slopes in a graceful fashion.

[wsmorrison]

OK, Chris you got me.  I won't compare Merion to PCC and RGGC (at least not here).  I will talk briefly about PCC and RGGC.  PCC put a great deal of effort into a recent restoration overseen by Ron Forse and implemented for the most part in-house by Mike McNulty.  PCC had a large number of trees removed which opened up great vistas and exposed the ground movement especially in the most interesting areas.  There are still spots on RGGC where the trees are choking the strategy out of some holes and seriously break up the vistas.  The bunkers at PCC have been restored to the scale they were at construction era and they are beautifully finished.  The bunkers at RGGC were redone by Macdonald and Sons prior to the Merion project.  This bunker work was poorly designed and executed.  Who knows, they may have held the Flynn plans upside down in some cases.  Thankfully, some of the bigger grassy rolls simply sloughed off due to the effects of gravity that Macdonald did not seem to think would come into play.  There is more remediation that needs to take place and the club may go with Ron Forse's recommendations at least I hope so at any rate.  However, the ground is much better at RGGC than at PCC.  It is simply more interesting for golf.  The challenge level of RGGC vs PCC is of a higher order as well.  PCC spends a lot more money for good (golf course) and bad (4 Seasons like-clubhouse) than RGGC and it shows.  

BTW, Chris, the 18th green at Kittansett sure got me rethinking what is Maxwell and Flynn in those greens at PCC!  I'll send you some photos.

[Mike_Sweeney]

RE,

If you get there early to Merion, before players make the turn at 13 and 14, my strong suggestion is that you grab a few clubs and walk to and from the range which is up by 16 tee on the other side of the quarry. The member and staff will offer to drive you up and back. Trust me make the walk to and from, it sets up the day. I think the thing that sets Merion apart from most clubs is Wilson's use/integration of the quarry and Cobb's Creek. Make sure you spend some time in the Men's Grill room. If you have time, go see 6, 7 and 8 over on The West.

Wayne and Mayday can guide you best at RGGC, and PCC is probably the most country club course of all the Flynn's you will see. I have not seen it since the tree removal, so maybe I will move it up over the others someday, but not yet.

To be a real Philly guy (my hometown), go to Geno's (not Pat's) in South Philly before the Eagles game.  

[mike_malone]

 Mike
   EVERYBODY in Philly is now on the South Beach diet--no more cheese steaks--at least no more roll!!!No more Tastykakes either.

[wsmorrison]

Only South Beach Diet sissies don't eat cheesesteaks in these parts, and they also don't know how to spell it  

Jim's steaks at 4th and South are awfully good too!  They opened a shop not far from RGGC too.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Only South Beach Diet sissies don't eat cheesesteaks in these parts, and they also don't know how to spell it  

Jim's steaks at 4th and South are awfully good too!  They opened a shop not far from RGGC too.

Wayne, I have your back here...even coming from east of the Delaware River, it's still one word.  
Just don't expect me to get any of this 'hoagies' or 'jimmies' stuff, it's 'subs' and 'sprinkles'.  

I never cared for Jims or Pat's...I was ambivalent about Dalessandros also...guess I'm asking for a fistfight!  

Ah well, what do I know...I've 'never heard of Flynn'.  Maybe if I did I'd actually be a decent golfer!  

[Jason Mandel]

doug,

i stayed out of this until you brought dalesanddro's into it!  their is nothing better than playing at walnut lane and going next door and getting a cheesesteak, perhaps not as good as it used to be, but still up there.

pats and genos are ok, but i leave those for the tourists and drunken nights.  i agree jims is solid as well.

my 2 cents

jason

[wsmorrison]

Doug,

Give Jim's another chance, they really are good.  After 1000 cheesesteaks or so in my life, I have a good idea.  The original shop (may be the original cheesesteak) at 62nd and Haverford is about 70 years old and is really good but it is now a bit shaky neighborhood.   Momma's on Belmont Ave is very good.  Each sandwich weighs about 3 pounds.  After you eat it you gain 5, I'm not sure how that works  

Here is a bit of cheesteak history according to a Philly restaurant website:

Philly is known worldwide for its cheesesteaks. A cheesesteak is a steak usually either ribeye or
sirlion steak which is fried in either vegetable oil or butter which is then covered with either
processed cheese or provolone or American cheese and placed in an Italian role. Popular items to
add to your steak include fried onions, sweet peppers, hot peppers, and mushrooms. Another
popular way to eat a cheesesteak is as a cheesesteak hoagie. A cheesesteak hoagie generally has
lettuce, tomatoes, and raw onions on it. While the cheesesteak is what Philly is famous for, there
are other types of steak sandwiches. The pizza steak includes pizza sauce and mozarrella cheese
or one of the traditional cheesesteak cheeses. You can also get your steak sandwich without the
cheese and just add your favorite condiments to it.

Legend has it that Pat Olivieri back in the 1930's was frying up some thin cut steak and accidently
got cheese on it. A taxi driver tried it and enjoyed it so much that the legendary cheesesteak was
born. Pat opened Pat's King of Steaks in 1932 and the Philly cheesesteak has been a mainstay of
Philadelphia cuisine ever since.

Cheesesteaks are available all over the city, today but places that have been serving the
cheesesteaks and winning awards as the best cheesesteaks include Pat's, Jim's, Tony Luke's,
Chink's, Geno's, Rick's, and Dalessandro's. Each of these places have their own loyal following.

Pat's King of Steaks is presently located at Ninth Street and Passyunk. The walls around Pat's
are filled with celebrities who have eaten a steak sandwich there. There are separate windows for
ordering steak sandwiches and pther food items. After ordering, most people eat their steak
sandwich at the counter or in their cars. The place is open 24 hours a day and business is brisk
after the bars close. Pat's web site is located here.

Across the street from Pat's is Geno's. Geno's wall are also filled with the many celebrities that
have chowed down on a Philly cheesesteak at their eatery. The ordering procedure is similar at
Geno's. Geno's is more spacious than Pat's and has several tables to eat at. Geno's is also open
24 hours a day. One tradition in Philly is to take newbies to both places and order cheesesteaks
from both places to see which they like best. Geno's web site is located here.

Near the sports and entertainment complexes is Tony Luke's. Tony Luke's old Philly style
sandwiches is located at 39 East Oregon Avenue. At Tony Luke's, there is only one window so
your order your sandwich, beverage, and other other items there. It is a favorite stop of sports
fans and sport celebrities to get their fill of Philly cheesesteals. Tony Luke's web site is located
here.

Jim's Steaks is located at 4th and South Street but has several location throughout the city. Their
steak sandwiches are popular with the tourists who visit South Street. Jim's web site is located
here.

Rick's Philly Steaks is located in the Reading Terminal Market ar 12th and Arch Streets. Rick's is
very popular with people who work or live in center city Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Also, many
vistors to the Pennsylvania convention center which is located across the street from the
Reading terminal market get their first taste of a Philly cheesesteak there.

Chink's Steaks is a neighborhood eatery specializing in steaks and shakes. It is located at 6030
Torresdale Avenus. Chink's is different than the other cheesesteak places in that it pretty much
just keeps to the basics in cheesesteak making. You can't get mushrooms or sweet peppers with
your steak nor a side order of fries but it has a strong following since 1948. Chink's is a recent
winner of the Best of Philly cheesesteak award.

Slacks's Hoagie Shack which has locations in Philadelphia and the Philly suburks of New Jersey
and Southeastern Pennsylvania is a popular place for people to fill up on the quota of cheese
steaks. Slack's Hoagie Shack web site is located here.

De Nofa Italian Deli and Caterer located at 6946 Torresdale Avenue is another local favorite for
their Philly cheesesteaks in that section of Philadelphia.

The final major cheesesteak place is Dalessandro's Steaks located at Henry Avenue and
Wendover Streets in the Roxborough section of Philadelpha. They have a loyal following in that
section of the city.

Fat's Deli and Seafood located at 6169 Torresdale Avenue has once again started to make thier
cheesesteaks. For a while, they went from a steak place to strictly seafood but once again they
are making thier cheesesteaks which were a local favorite for many people. Fat's is only open
Wedenesday through Saturday.
 
By the way, Doug, I think Dalessandro's is good.  Chink's is great although they are being sued by a Chinese-American group.  Chink was a fat white guy from way back who made the cheesesteaks and and sold them before Chink was a derogatory word--or so I've been told.

[rgkeller]

Be sure to double check your clubs before leaving Merion. I strongly suggest that you put the clubs in the trunk of your car yourself or at least supervise the loading.

[JBergan]

Personally, I think Tony Luke's roast pork with broccoli rabe and provolone is a better sandwich than any of the well known cheesesteaks.  My favorite cheesesteak is from Steve's in NE Philly.

Here's some handy info on the cheesesteak places and other Philly eateries:

http://hollyeats.com/Philadelphia.htm

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Personally, I think Tony Luke's roast pork with broccoli rabe and provolone is a better sandwich than any of the well known cheesesteaks.  My favorite cheesesteak is from Steve's in NE Philly.

Here's some handy info on the cheesesteak places and other Philly eateries:

http://hollyeats.com/Philadelphia.htm

I've had Steve's, at the recommendation of several natives.  Not a bad steak, but rather insubstantial (I ate two in one sitting).  Dalessandro's was good, although I expected a little more beef and cheese.  
It would be fun to have a steak after a round at Walnut Lane.
Anyone interested for this fall/winter?
I used to like to eat at the place on Spring Garden after leaving the bars and clubs in the area--it's the place right behind Egypt--as it was close to my car.  I had Genos or Pats, once about 5 years ago at about 3:30 am, and wasn't that impressed, but I'd give it another shot.  I recall it was put together very quickly, and I ate it while driving.

My two cents, I LOVED Rolling Green.  Thanks again, Wayne.  I 'hit the ball great on the range, but I was a completely different golfer coming up 18'...  
Not brown-nosing, but I really liked Flynn's use of the topography and gained a real appreciation for his style.  I liked the subtle greens a lot, and I concur about the trees encroaching on strategy--but I'm a bad guy to ask.  I saw enough trees all day.   So many non-flat lies, which make for a real challenge in hitting the correct part of the green, but that's the topography and Flynn's use of the slopes.  I LOVED it.