Gourmet's Choice revisited?

[Tom_Doak]

Commonwealth would be hanging by a thread as my Sand Belt representative.  Maybe I'd cheat and call Kingston Heath a Soutar/Morcom design so I could use it.

Tom, with the passage of a decade or more, and greater understanding of MacKenzie's role at Kingston Heath, do you view the course today as primarily a Soutar / Morcom work ?

MM

Matthew:

I guess I would call Kingston Heath an "evolved" course instead of trying to credit it to any one architect.  Soutar's original routing is still mostly intact, except for Dr. MacKenzie's one important change; Alex Russell and the Morcoms did the bunkering, based loosely on MacKenzie's sketches; and Graeme Grant and Mike Clayton have both made some significant changes to greens and approaches.  That will give it a good place in the Gazetteer, but I'm not sure who I would list it under for the front of Volume 5.  I guess I've got a while to sort that out!

[Mike_Clayton]

Tom

We have made some changes to Kingston Heath but not to the greens or the approaches. Graeme did all that work in his time (1982-97) including new greens at 6,13 and 18 as well as the dips in front of 7 and 14. I think he also changed the back of the 10th green.
We added the 19th (which they use in tournaments in place of 10) moved the tee back at 12 and as a consequence moved the bunker, removed the centre bunker at 11 and redid Graeme's fairway bunker at 18.
I'm not sure when you last saw it but in the last 5-10 years they have added tees at (wait for it!) 1,2,3,4,6,11,12,13,16 and 18.

It has certainly been hacked at a lot since 1926 but the changes seem to have not hurt the course in the eyes of the critics. As a club they have never been afraid to make changes - starting with MacKenzie's removal of the 'blot' of a 15th hole and its famous replacement.

[Bill Brightly]

I wonder if Tom would still put Carmargo ahead of Fishers Island.

[Tom_Doak]

I wonder if Tom would still put Carmargo ahead of Fishers Island.

Bill:

The selection of courses in the front of the book is about highlighting a variety of courses, not putting one ahead of the others or just listing the best in each region.  [The numbers do that.]  A great example is Painswick, which could never be in the front of the new Volume 1 if it was just about "the best".

I wouldn't rate Camargo as "better" than Fishers Island, but the midwest needed some good examples and seaside courses and the NY metro area were already well represented.  I have no idea which Raynor course will be chosen to represent volumes 2 & 3 ... it could be anywhere from Fishers to Yeamans Hall to Shoreacres to a half-dozen others.  With candidates like those that are all pretty close together, it will probably come down to geography and where we feel we've underserved.

[Brett Wiesley]

Tom,  break the trend and go for a Gourmet Choice of 36 or more courses.  I certainly enjoy the in depth reads. More courses in America, likely a majority of your readership as well so go crazy and spoil us all. I'm looking forward to the next volume.

Brett

[MClutterbuck]

Tom,

Interesting you mention South America for inclusion. I cant think of a course to be included considering the mediocre state of the few classic gems I know (and I dont know all probably). An argument could be made that some modern courses are better today than the usual suspect classics. I would certainly argue today that some of the contributors to this site have at least one better course in South America than what is left of Dr. Mackenzie's altered South American designs. Restorations are heavily needed in South America.

Marcos