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ForkaB

Bunker approach maintenance techniques
« on: August 19, 2004, 07:29:54 AM »
A few weeks ago we had a topic on the widespread current practice of surrounding "fairway" and other bunkers with a thick collar of "rough."  The (great) pictures of Winged Foot on another thread only reinforce the prevalence of this phenomenon, even at our most revered courses.  The conventional wisdom on this site seemed to be that it was too difficult or expensive to maintain grass at fairway cut height at the bunker surrounds.

I promised on the earlier thread to ask someone I knew in Scotland (and who knows very well the issue and the "problem") about the difficulty of keeping bunker approaches at fairway height.  I did, last week, and he looked at me as if I had come from Mars.  "Why, Richard, we just cut them!" said he.  "Maybe we raise the blades a bit on some approaches and then finish them off with a Flymo, but it's not hard or expensive at all."

Methinks that this pernicious trend in the USA is due to a combination of pusillanimous committees (whose members want a buffer between their wayward shots and hazards, or like the "shaping" effect of a narrow fairway) and greenkeepers who just go with the flow rather than do what is right.

Comments?

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bunker approach maintenance techniques
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2004, 07:45:47 AM »
Rich,

I suppose its possible that its just a custom we don't really know how it developed here in the good ole US of A.

On the other hand, this is also a very large country, with a variety of climates and soils compared to Scotland.  The other big difference is that fairway bunkers here, if on the same side as the cart path, tend to block cart traffic, resulting in more traffic on the edges of the bunkers.  That, and clay soils could be what causes problems in some parts of our great country.

Carts, heat, and soil.  They drive a lot of design and maintenance here!
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

A_Clay_Man

Re:Bunker approach maintenance techniques
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2004, 07:55:22 AM »
I'm with Rihc on this.

Why go the expense of constructing and maintaining a fairway bunker, or the fairway side of a greenside bunker, if the only balls capable of being engulphed are areial?

I'm at the point now where when I see that presentation on some of the "great" courses. I scratch the ol' nogg'in and wonder "how" great.

ForkaB

Re:Bunker approach maintenance techniques
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2004, 09:04:04 AM »
Jeff

Do you mean to imply that when DJR, AWT, etc. designed their courses they expected fairway bunkers to be surrounded by thick grass and reachable only through the air?

I take in all you say about soils, climate and even carts :'(, but I still think that the reason this regrettable maintenance practice is allowed to flourish is a combination of ignorance, cowardice and laziness.  I'm sure Winged Foot could shave their bunker surrounds, if they wanted to.............

Sean Remington (SBR)

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bunker approach maintenance techniques
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2004, 09:59:05 AM »
    I think that Jeff is makeing all the correct points. I would only add that the mowing height and grass type of fairways is completely different now than 50 years ago.

I have identified the problem on my own course and have been working since last fall to open approaches and fairways up. Still I don't think it is wise, in my situation, to take fairway cut up to the bunker edge. I try to take the fairway close enough to that the step cut of rough, 84" wide at 1" high, gets to within a foot or two of the bunker. This varies for several reasons. A big one is that I don't feel the bunkers were built with this set up in mind. You need several factors to come together in order to make this work. You can't just go out there and cut is shorter. At least not in the inland mid-atlantic area. IMHO

Marc Haring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bunker approach maintenance techniques
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2004, 10:04:35 AM »
If I could loosely quote the celebrated mid 20th century, heterosexual poet, philosopher and wit, M Miller

I like the girls that do
I like the girls that don’t
I like the girls that say they do
and then you find they don’t.

But the girls I like most of all
and I think you know I’m right,
are the girls that always say they won’t
But look as though they might.

Anyway, point is I think variety is to be appreciated as long as it is appropriate to the setting. I try to present all forms on my lake infested moneymaking operation and the punters seem to appreciate it.

What I don’t much appreciate is the wall-to-wall semi-rough enclosed bunkering that is devoid of character and always presents the golfer with the same floating type escape method. Sometimes it is nice to test them with a tight lie or two while I do appreciate the visual look of the natural rough bunker. I especially admire the Mackenzie type where the bunker acts as a transition zone between formal fairway and natural dune land.


Marc Haring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bunker approach maintenance techniques
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2004, 10:05:24 AM »
One other thing. Health and safety is a huge issue nowadays and unfortunately a greenkeeper was fatally injured a year or two back when he was mowing around the bunker surround when the bank gave way and the mower ended up on top of him. I think many supers are extremely wary of this, as they should be.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bunker approach maintenance techniques
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2004, 10:19:46 AM »
Rich,

My post spoke only of todays conditions.  That should have been obvious when I mentioned carts, which I doubt the old guys considered. ;)

I agree with Sean. The fairways in those days couldn't have been cut less than 1.25" and were probably higher - about the same as the typical intermediate rough cut now.  So, if we are comparing how things played in the old days to now, I would have to say that tighter fairways direct the ball more to bunkers (if thats how they are contoured) and the last 6 feet don't hurt any more than it did in the past.

I spent a few moments looking at old B and W pictures from the various architecture books, and see a mix of bunker treatments.  While some do have fairway right to the edge, others seem to have a smaller strip than we see today - probablya result of smaller or hand mowers mowing one pass then versus riding mowers doing one pass now.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

A_Clay_Man

Re:Bunker approach maintenance techniques
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2004, 11:31:56 AM »
The one decent reason, for being cautious that I've heard, relates to the degredation of the sand with soil.

Pat Brockwell

Re:Bunker approach maintenance techniques
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2004, 11:39:30 AM »
One size fits all doesn't apply to bunker approach maintenance.  Some bunkers should be set up to catch only fly ins and others set up as black holes with an event horizon out into the fairway that collects balls running too close.  Bunkers with volcano lips to keep surface drainage out are another matter and budget considerations on very steep banks requiring a flymo is yet another critter.  In general I try to remember that bunkers are supposed to be hazards that should be avoided.  A shaggy surround can increase the hazard level and be desirable, a mowed surround can take the teeth out of a hazard. Reverse that equation and you might be fixing a pace of play issue.  One shot at a time, one bunker at a time.

TEPaul

Re:Bunker approach maintenance techniques
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2004, 12:19:05 PM »
Jeff Brauer said this;

“I suppose its possible that its just a custom we don't really know how it developed here in the good ole US of A.”

I believe that’s not only possible it’s more than highly likely!

Rich Goodale said;

“....but I still think that the reason this regrettable maintenance practice is allowed to flourish is a combination of ignorance, cowardice and laziness.”

I think that’s also highly likely, not just today in America but throughout American architectural maintenance. But more than cowardice and laziness, it really always has been ignorance or simply a lack of awareness.

I tried to do an historical study of this very specific subject about a year ago and it seemed to prove that American architecture in any time did have rough cut height rings around bunkering including the approach side of bunkers. I scanned numerous old photos and almost without fail this was the case although in the old days those rough rings appeared to be lower than most are today, but nevertheless it appears they were always there in America. I feel this was just something that probably evolved, perhaps even without any thought at all as to the ramifications of playability. It just got to be a custom and maintenance practices just reflected that with probably no real thought.

Another possible thought as to the reasons this evolved as a custom in America could perhaps be that in America fertilization of American golf agronomy seems to have always been a far larger factor and concern than in Europe or elsewhere. In other words American courses generally have been much lusher much longer than their European counterparts. There’s an old golf maintenance cliché that in America clubs always tried everything to get their grass to grow, while in Europe they were content to stop their grass from growing rapidly!!

Another logical reason may be that in the old days of American golf fairway irrigation was not common and balls tended to run-on rapidly more often. I think we can imagine that in those conditions a rather low rough collar on the incoming side of bunkers wouldn’t do much to stop a ball from running into a bunker. But then after WW2 America began to over-irrigate and Americans virtually forgot what the real ground game of distance of the ball on the ground was. Obviously they just never thought to adjust those old rough cut rings accordingly by mowing them down to fairway height!

But the fact is if we today wanted to cut our bunker approaches down to fairway height in America we certainly can do it! Again, in my opinion, this is probably just one of those things that very few even think of or ever really did(although a fair number in my club have thought about it this year as a result of a more dedicated concern for any maintenance practices that "ideally meld" into the originally intended playabilities of our restored architecture).

But it is something that a detail oriented architectural site like this would think of and it wouldn’t surprise me at all if a number of clubs notice this issue on here and start doing something about it, and the practice of cutting bunker approaches down to fairway heights begins to become popular on some courses in America.



« Last Edit: August 19, 2004, 12:24:20 PM by TEPaul »

Jim Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bunker approach maintenance techniques
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2004, 09:36:34 PM »
I think we're missing a significant factor as it relates to American v Old World golf.  The American hang up may be the result of the omnipresent desire for boutique grasses and visual stimulation.  Across the pond it seems much more acceptable to have and maintain poa fairways, surrounds and roughs, each type of poa moving into and establishing itself according to its needs (mowing height, water, frequency, etc...).  Here the demand for bent fairways creates that odd area at the “edge” where the drop into the bunker meets the fairway height.  I don’t know if anyone has ever seeded bunker faces in bent, but it’s a thought. Could you even maintain it???

We use the bluegrass on our faces and on the bunker ring.  We mow it at step height, ½” so it won’t stop your ball from going into the bunker.  The reason we do so is to take and spread the wear at the corner or edge.  Some folks drive along the edge of the bunker, some along the edge of the bluegrass.  I think if we hadn’t done this, everyone would drive at the very edge of the bunker and the bent wouldn’t hold up.  I pretty sure a healthy strand of poa would though.  We have this “wear” issue with a lot of our cross hazards and angled seed lines.  In addition where fairway lines are straight, the edge of the fairway is developing a road.  The majority of players take the same route around the course like cattle at times, increasing localized stress and wear points.  (In some places we are going to convert bent to blue this fall to better bear the stress.) On the side banks and fore bank of the bunker we fly mow at 3” once every two weeks, so those edges maintain their status as hazards.  Bunker bottoms are raked, T, Th, F, Sa & S and I cringe every time I go back to the office and see Macdonald’s photo on the cover of Evangelist of Golf staring at me.

As for general maintenance, I’m a fan of greens, bunkers and tees first thing with fairways, inner roughs, steps done “in the gap” by team early afternoon off the first tee.

Cheers!

JT
Jim Thompson

Chris Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bunker approach maintenance techniques
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2004, 10:47:31 PM »
8W at Royal Melbourne


11 at Commonwealth


4 at Metropolitan


14 at Kingston Heath


These are four of the sandbelt courses, where mowing right to the edge of the bunker is standard maintenance procedure.  The  risk/reward aspect of these bunkers would be greatly diminished if they were surrounded by rough.

The arguments against don't wash with me, unless the designer specifically intended his bunkers to be "in the rough"

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bunker approach maintenance techniques
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2004, 11:45:49 PM »
Chris,

That depends to a great extent on the type of thickness of the grass surrounding the bunker.  If it is just first cut height you are correct that it'll take the teeth out of the thing as it may stop your ball from going into the bunker and leaving a pretty easy play.  But if the rough is thick enough or tall enough, I am usually hoping it made it into the bunker instead of getting held up.  This is even more true if there are some steep slopes around the bunker, you might end up out of the bunker but having to stand in it with the ball at your knees or worse!

A few weeks ago I was playing at Amana Colonies and the 6th hole there is a longish par 5 with a solitary fairway bunker at the top of the hill about 270 off the tee.  I pulled my drive over towards it, but didn't see it bounce so I assumed it landed it in it.  When I got there it wasn't in the bunker, and I looked all around.  Short, long, all over the damn place and was just about to give it up when I found it hanging for dear life in the 8" grass above the left side, it had flown the front of it over to the left side and actually lodged in the grass on about a 45 degree slope on the hillside immediately above the bunker!  I had no play at all, but even that was no excuse for the shot I hit, which went straight right about 8 yards across the trap, leaving me in the same tall grass on the other side having to stand in the trap.  I managed to get it about 120 yards down the fairway from there.  Had that trap been shaved, or had just first cut rough, my tee shot would have rolled back down into the trap and left me with a level lie I could easily advance 150-200 yards down the fairway with no trouble for a little wedge to the green.  Tell me again how shaving the sides of bunkers makes them play harder.... ;)
« Last Edit: August 19, 2004, 11:46:48 PM by Doug Siebert »
My hovercraft is full of eels.

TEPaul

Re:Bunker approach maintenance techniques
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2004, 08:08:31 AM »
One of the things we should all probably realize is most all the bunkers I've ever seen including those courses in the Briitish Open rota and those of the ultra cool Australian "sand belt" area and numerous others around the world that have short cropped fairway length grass on the incoming or approach side are all pretty much what I'd describe as bunkering that has the "ultra clean" look completely surrounding most of the bunkering. This includes the prevalent "revetted" bunkering of Europe and the "clean edged" bunkering of the Australian sand belt. If it wasn't that way it'd be sort of hard to "transition" both the look and the maintenance of the cutting of the grass around any bunker.

Frankly, the only bunkering I've ever seen (and only the fairway bunkering as I remember) that has long grass surrounding one side and very short grass on the other side is Atlantic City C.C. The grass around the bunkering on the fairway side is short and on the outside or rough side is much longer. It would probably be instructive to talk to super Jeff Kent about how he actually "transitions" those two distinctly different cut heights surrounding his fairway bunkering. I think it just might have to do with how the fairway/rough lines tie into any bunker as they flow up to and past them!

A_Clay_Man

Re:Bunker approach maintenance techniques
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2004, 08:26:56 AM »
Chris K and other knowledgable Aussies- Can anyone speak authoritatively on the maintenance and cost issues mentioned above?

To me, additional costs for specialized maintenance are more than justified, when placed up against the benefits.


Chris Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Bunker approach maintenance techniques
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2004, 09:28:13 AM »
Adam,

I can't speak authoritatively on the maintenance/cost issues, but I imagine that there are a few who could - hopefully Mike Clayton will chime in here.

What I can say is that the maintenance practices you see in the photos are standard practice on the sandbelt, and I doubt it would be considered "specialised maintenance".  The strategy would be greatly affected if clubs started growing rough around the bunkers - which is why I shake my head when I see photos of "great" courses like Merion with bunkers in the rough.  If the fairway bunkers are meant to be a strategic hazard, why water down the risk/reward effect with rough?

Tom,

There are several courses on the sandbelt with short grass on the fairway side and long grass/plants on the other side.  Some of the best sandbelt bunkering merges seemlessly with the surrounding bushland - from memory there was some discussion about this on this forum regarding Metropolitan and the 2001 Accenture Matchplay.


mike_malone

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Re:Bunker approach maintenance techniques
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2004, 09:13:47 AM »
 I am resurrecting this thread because I noticed at Firestone that they cut the rough down to "first cut" height near landing area bunkers.This may be a compromise in that fairway maintenance is not necessary but near fairway height is used.
AKA Mayday