Nantucket G.C.

[Bob_Huntley]

I played Nantucket G.C. last Monday and wondered why there was so much hostility to the course from the members of this forum. I went back into the discusiions on Sankaty and Nantucket and this one caught my eye.

"Slapper,

I agree with 98% of what Happy says and 99% of what you say and 50% of what Matt says about the issue of the Bridge.  

Can anyone cite an example of a Rees Jones course that outperforms its site's characteristics rather than underperforming them? Atlantic, perhaps? My feeling was that as much as I like Nantucket or Ocean Forest, they could have been better."

Isn't there any course extant that couldn't have been better? I am not sure what we are looking for in architecture, but for sure enjoyment in allowing space for the driver, decent bunkering and keen greens on a magnificent site then Nantucket fits the bill.

 

[SPDB]

Bob -
What were your thoughts on Nantucket GC vis-a-vis Sankaty?

[Bob_Huntley]

SPDP,

Quite frankly I think I would prefer to play Nantucket to Sankaty on a regular basis. Don't get me wrong, I think Sankaty is a delightful experience but the sheer openess of Nantucket appeals to me.

[pdrake]

Are they still getting $350K+ for all that "openess"??

[SPDB]

P Drake - No kidding. It's addition by subtraction. Boost up the price, and you get a Rees course with 50% less containment mounding.

In all honesty, he did a good job. There is some interesting bunker work, far more subtle than Atlantic. I'd only wish that he would move it out toward the center of the fairway, especially on some of the downwind holes (a la #6).

[SPDB]

Bob - Surely you aren't saying you felt claustrophobic at Sankaty?  

[pdrake]

Don't get me wrong......I like Nantucket...........the price is a little steep though ala Vineyard Club and The Bridge.  I love the rationale behind the $500K initiation at The Bridge.....the owner says there is room for another 18 holes, but the membership is paying to keep the open space.  Wonder if they will get a clubhouse soon for their .5 million entry fee.........oh ya and the dues in the upper teens!

[Bob_Huntley]

What is it that pi**es people off about enormous initiation fees at golf clubs? Is it the politics of envy or what?

Some people like yachts, G5s, mansions, fishing lodges, ski chalets, all things that I find would be nice to have but cannot afford. The fees funded some landowners dream of cashing out, some people get a new job, provision merchants benefit; you can bet John Deere and Toro make a buck or two. Surely this is what capitalism is all about.  

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I think high fees or whatever the fees are should not be relevant to a discusssion about the course. I have been fortunate to play some courses with fees like those noted above and cannot ever remember that being significant to the quality of the course other than they probably do not have a maintenance budget issue.

[Robert Thompson]

Bob -- I think the thing about high initiation fees is that they simply become a status symbol (ie., "yes, I play at The Very Expensive Golf and Country Club, have you heard of it?"), rather than being about the golf. Look at many of the great golf clubs across North America -- most of the time they aren't the most expensive. But lots of people who don't know much about golf, but have lots of cash, love to belong to the most expensive course in town, just so they can say they do. Isn't that the whole premise behind Trump's properties?
On this list, I bet people resent the number of members at these clubs who have no appreciation for the fact they belong to a great golf club. In that case it is envy and resentment. God knows the number of times I've played historic Toronto clubs (like St. George's) and explained the history of the course to the member.
But to your point Bob, oh well, this is life, isn't it? Can't always afford everything we want. But I also think this explanation goes is a means of explaining why so many hate $500K memberships and dues of another $15K.

Robert

[pdrake]

I am not p*ssed about the high initiation fee......if someone is stupid enough to fork over that kind of $$$..more power to them.  I belong to 3 great clubs and forked over a fraction of that.  I am happy and I guess they are too................

[Bob_Huntley]

P.Drake,

My comments were not directed toward you, but at the overall disdain of the treehouse to expensive projects. I wonder what golfers were thinking when Pine Valley and Augusta were in their development stages? I would hazard a guess, that compared to what went before they were as expensive as hell.

[SPDB]

Bob - It's one thing to charge exorbitant fees to service the cost of development. It's an entirely other matter to charge exorbitant fees for its own sake. Personally, I have no quibble with someone who will belly up to either.  The former, however, in my mind, is more defensible than the latter. Undoubtedly demand is the driver, and I would never fault a developer for having a reasonable expectation of profits. Somewhere along the way, however, a club often is considered desirable because of what it costs to get in the door. What you call the politics of envy, I might, under some of the circumstances listed above, call the politics of pity.

[HamiltonBHearst]

Mr. Huntley I think you are mistaken with your belief that this site has an overall disdain for expensive projects.  Any idea what Friar's Head costs?

[Dale_McCallon]

Of course a lot of people will join the most expensive club they can, just to say they are a member--but who cares?  If a developer wants to charge a million dollars and people will pay it, more power to him.  Most members of clubs couldn't care less about the architecture.  Most (if they even play much) just want a pretty to look at, perfectly manicured, course.  Nothing wrong with that and for 500 k, they should be able to get their wishes.

[Mark Brown]

Rees is a good friend, does good work and you always know what you're going to get. But that's part of the problem - repitition.

He had a super seaside site at Ocean Forest but he covered all the existing sand dunes with grass instead of leaving it natural. And the small perfectly round bunkers make me crazy -- nature doesn't have perfect lines.

Ocean Forest could have been so much better.

The front nine at Huntsville (PA) may be his best work with a site.

[Matt_Ward]

Mark Brown:

Don't know if you seen or played Olde Kinderhook just south of Albany, NY. I believe it's Rees best overall work and gets far too little attention because of its location IMHO.