Deceased signature architects??

[Mike_Young]

In reading the "regional architects" post I was thinking of how and if some of the "signature architecture firms" we see now days would survive once the "signature" was deceased.  IMHO a regional architect that has been on his own for a few years has a better grasp of his market than a staff member of a large signature firm that steps out on his own.  Without the signature it is just another name starting up.
Fact is we now have some large Signature firms.  How and will they survive without the "signature".

[Mike_Sweeney]

Reality is most people do not care about GCA. My guess is that "Signature" is driven by housing which is driven by interest rates. If interest rates stay low, signatures will increase/stay the same, and if interest rates rise, it will be a tough business for all.

[Mike_Young]

MikeSweeney,
I think I may not have explained myself.  I am asking how will the architects working for a signature firm continue to work once the "signature" architect has died.  

[Mike_Sweeney]

MikeSweeney,
I think I may not have explained myself.  I am asking how will the architects working for a signature firm continue to work once the "signature" architect has died.  

Mike,

I would assume Roger Rulewich would be the model.

[TEPaul]

Mike:

The entire "signature" concept in both golf architecture or anythng else is basically just bullshit and marketing! People still buy things like the "Ralph Lauren Signature Edition" Ford Explorer SUV! Do you think Ford did any more than pay Ralph Lauren royalties to just use his name?

P.T. Barnum's sales cliche and adage that "A sucker is born every minute" remains pretty enduring!  

[Brad Klein]

Mike, is terms of creative work, most of them have already been dead for years and no one has seemed to notice. But it will be tough when they can't even show up to the grand opening.

[A_Clay_Man]

Ba da bing! Brad.

I'd speculate that there will be another signature shop opening soon, near you.

IMG alone, will likely have over 3000 courses worldwide, soon.

[moth]

They just had an Elvis concert here where hundreds if not a few thousand people were willing to pay $200 or so to see a dead guy on a screen (albeit with a live backing band).

Surely some of these signature firms can do some videotaping now of their "star" saying a few choice words about the course (e.g. Gary Player saying its the best course of it's type in the world, do a video for a parkalnd course, a links course etc), then this can be played at the course opening? Combined with advances in computer technology, video editing etc who will know that the guy is dead and not just travelling somewhere???

The only problem I can see is that it may be hard to collect the same design fee if the "signature" designer is dead, but seeing as all parties have a vested interest in him being alive, maybe no one has to mention this minor detail.

[Mike_Young]

Brad,
I agree with you.  I guess my question is more of one of "how do they continue a firm" after a signature dies.  For regional architects which base their work on actual work they can always pass it on to children or staff but a signature's work is based more on "signature value" to a development which must greatly decrease after death.  
As in the case of RTJ/Roger Rulewich.  He may receive much of RTJ restoration etc. but developers don't look at it the same as RTJ on new projects.

[Brad Klein]

Adam, do you mean in Bloomfield, Conn?

Mike, Rulewich is interesting, because for 35 years he did so much of Trent's work that it became his style, which he now continues.

The real issue, of course, is not talent but marketing. Palmer's group will be the most interesting test of this. Just look at what happened when RTJII's design shop broke up and two of his talented associates, Don Knott and Gary Linn, started their own outfit - with very little work, as I now understand it. Bobby was one heck of a marketer, after all.

You know, Mike, for years, the landscape architecture firm of Olmsted cashed in on the old man's name - Frederick Law Olmsted - long after he died. To this day, many parks and gardens designed by the younger Olmsted still claim they were designed by FLO.

[A_Clay_Man]

No Brad, I was referencing the multi-marketable opportunities that many a young gun agent, will undoubtedly be pushing, for the likes of Tiger Woods, Ernie Els, Anika Sorenstam et al. In other words, when JN or Arnie pass, there will plenty of replacements.

Speaking of these backroom actual architects, can anyone give some info on one Jep Willie?

I'll be scouting his Taos CC this week, and as I understand it, he has worked for the Jones' and Finger Dye Spann. His college roommate, Tad Bourg is the principle.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Roger Rulewich is the prime modern example, with Sr. dying a few years ago, and being really the first "signature" architect.  He's doing OK since then.  Grande Dunes in Myrtle Beach and some others.  Wouldn't surprise me that he uses Sr.'s name in his marketing spiel.  Same goes with Rees and Bobby's work, although they left long before dad passed.

Going further back, didn't Dick Wilson work under Flynn/Toomey?  He did pretty well on his own.

Doak worked under Dye, then it took him years to make a name for himself.  Hanse worked for Doak (not a household name then), and has scratched and clawed to get some choice projects.  For both, I think their work spoke for them, despite not being big names.

Bob Cupp is another guy from a signature firm who has done pretty well leaving, although Mr. Bear is certainly still with us.