JF Abercromby

[Paul_Turner]

Just speculating:

Did Aber move towards the more natural look because he worked a few years later at The Addington with Colt?  Colt being a natural style proponent.

Park worked with Aber at Worplesdon.  But I don't see any of that geometric flat bottomed bunker style in v early pics of Sunningdale.

[Paul_Turner]

Actually, I take that last statement back-oops.

This is Sunningdale shown in a 1906 article.  Some parts look quite rudimentary and geometric.  Quite different from what Colt worked towards.  (Look at how open the heath was!)

We know Macdonald visited Sunn Old because he pilfered our Bottle Hole

A lot of the style may have been simply due to the state-of-the-art in construction at the time.  And then guys like Colt and Mackenzie worked towards a more sophisticated look.  Certainly Alwoodley (1907) was much more natural looking.  As was Swinley Forest (1910/11).

For some reason Macdonald/Raynor prefered the older style and stuck with it.

[TEPaul]

"Did Aber move towards the more natural look because he worked a few years later at The Addington with Colt?  Colt being a natural style proponent.

Paul;

This is precisely the kind of thing I'd eventually like to uncover or determine. This little slice of an era in golf architecture is so very interesting as to why and how the art form got from A to B, if you know what I mean!

The engineered style which we can clearly see with Aber in that photo of the 11th at Worplesdon is one distinct style and the ultra natural look of the style Tom MacWood posted in that 1908 photo of Addington is completely different. One really does wonder why Macdonald/Raynor never did evolve from the one to the other! But in retrospect regarding the whole flow in the evolution of gof architecture maybe it's a good thing, certainly a more interesting thing, that they never did!

[T_MacWood]

Paul
I do think Colt had an impact on Abercromby, maybe not at first directly but indirectly. His next design was another collaboration with Park, Coombe Hill in 1909. It is another step forward naturalistically, not nearly as angualr. Perhaps it was a natural evolution for the two men, or maybe a response to Colt's work at Sunningdale and elsewhere in the vicinity.

Abercromby eventually teamed up with Colt at Addington (1913-14), which no doubt effected him. And at The Addington (New)--which some consider his finest effort--he teamed up with Croome, who built one of the naturalistic classics, Liphook.

[TEPaul]

"....he teamed up with Croome, who built one of the naturalistic classics, Liphook."

Never even heard of it. Do you have any photos or evidence of why it's a 'naturalistic classic'?

[Paul_Turner]

Tom

In England, Liphook is quite a famous course.  And naturally everyone is intrigued by its name.  It was Tom Simpson's favourite inland course.

Croome was a bit of an enigma.  I've seen some sketches of the man and he was one unusual looking dude.  

[Paul_Turner]

Liphook's website:

http://www.liphookgolfclub.com/signature.html

[TEPaul]

Tom MacWood said;

"I agree, there is a disturbing simularity between the new St.George's Hill and new Worplesdon bunkers. Have we been exporting restoration specialists to the UK?"

It's too bad Tom MacWood didn't place a "smiley" behind that remark. But perhaps he didn't because he actually believe it!  

[Marc Haring]

I don’t think there has ever been too much restoration work at Worplesdon at least not to my knowledge. I have been familiar with the course for about 20 years now and can never recollect the bunkers being any different. I think Paul is correct in his theory that it is simply down to long-term maintenance issues.

Back in the 60’s there was a DIY programme on TV where this nutter took a pleasant Victorian house and week by week systematically ripped out every piece of character in the place replacing it with imported Scandinavian hardboard sheets. I am not quite old enough to remember the programme and I am sure he was simply reflecting the post war modernisation practices of the time. I just wonder how much this obsessive decharacterisation influenced course remodelling at the same time?

Here’s a bit more of those bunkers on the short #13 at Worplesdon.



Also the tee shot on #6.


Great par 3, #7.

[T_MacWood]

Tom Simpson identified what he thought were 'the five pioneer courses of modern architecture' -- Sunningdale, Walton Heath, Worplesdon, Coombe Hill and Swinley Forest.

He acknowledged Park at both Sunningdale and Worplesdon, but gives Colt and Abercromby major credit for the finishing touches. Of Coombe Hill, Simpson says it was 'probably the finest and most artistic example of artificial construction work that had been made up to the year 1908.'

[TEPaul]

In my opinion, the differences on #13 Worplesdon evident in the photos on post #4 and on the old 1908 photo of the green (and green-side bunker) in post #16 are more than could be acheived through even 96 years of evolutionary maintenance practices! At some point someone must have got in there and made some changes.