[TEPaul]

Michael:

You know me, in my opinion, Merion and PVGC are two unique courses that pretty much have 18 very good to great holes. The only possible weakness at PVGC, in my opinion, is the second half of #6 and the back tee on #15 is just way too close to #14 green! Crump never saw some of 12-15 finished or in play and may have done something about the way the tee is on #15 but on #6 he most definitely intended to move his original green back at least 30 yards and even had that area cleared before he died suddenly. The club picked up on that and got Alison to build that beautiful green on #6 but it should have been at least 30 yards farther back than it is! The tee shot on #6 is absolutely one of the best and best looking multi-optional and strategic tee shots to be found anywhere but once you executed any of the options successfully there just isn't enough distance left to that green to make that hole all that it could be and should be and clearly all that Crump intended it to be!

[George Pazin]

Oakmont 1-4 has to be one of the better opening stretches anywhere. 15-18 has to be one of the better closing stretches - maybe not quite Merion's equal, but pretty impressive nonetheless.

Inniscrone 11-15 is pretty darn good.

[Casey Wade]

I've always felt when the Shell Houston Open was at TPC the Woodlands, that 13-18 were a great stretch.  Because the wind swirls, 17 and 18 play beautifully hard and strategic.

I'm surprised nobody has put 10-13 at Augusta down either.

[Bob Barriger]

12-15 at Wolf Run

[Tom_Doak]

There isn't one hole at Black Diamond which anyone else would insert into the stretch of 6-10 at Pebble Beach or Amen Corner ... sorry, Mark.

I used to think I'd be lucky to ever build a better stretch of holes than 11-15 at High Pointe, but 2-7 at Pacific Dunes turned out pretty well, and I'm thinking 4-9 at Barnbougle and 6-11 at St. Andrews Beach are probably going to be better, too.

I do think that having a stretch of really great holes is important in the course rankings ... a great stretch makes it easier to overlook a weak hole here or there.

[A_Clay_Man]

Dave Shivas Schmidt- You clearly have you cranium up near the T-bone, if'n you think the 6th at PB isn't a special golf hole. Unless of course, your wind reference means you only consider difficulty for greatness.

YA know how the start of the newest nine at BWR (River) begins with "Heaven's Door" #5? Well, that's exactly what #6 at PB is, only it really is the start of heaven.

I look forward to your rebutal.

p.s. Read what Doak said, if'n you wanna argue.

[mark chalfant]

Fishers  Island  3-6

White Bear Yacht  1-5

Moraine  1-4

Longmeadow  2-5

NCR  9-12

[Pete Buczkowski]

Many of Ross's NC sandhills courses have excellent opening stretches, incorporating great variety with half-par holes.  Among my favorites are:

Pinehurst #2: 2-6, sets a high for the whole round
Pine Needles: 2-5, great area of the property
Mid Pines:     3-5, 3 holes you feel you should birdie every time but rarely do
Southern Pines: 1-6, excellent give-and-take

[Brian_Gracely]

Many of Ross's NC sandhills courses have excellent opening stretches, incorporating great variety with half-par holes.  Among my favorites are:

Pinehurst #2: 2-6, sets a high for the whole round
Pine Needles: 2-5, great area of the property
Mid Pines:     3-5, 3 holes you feel you should birdie every time but rarely do
Southern Pines: 1-6, excellent give-and-take

Pete,

I was going to comment that I'd be surprised if anyone listed a Ross course on this thread, because many people look at the "give" holes on Ross courses as being easy or downers and only focus on the "take" holes (#5 at Pinehurst #2, or #4 at Southern Pines).  

The whole concept of give & take is actually the part of Ross courses that I enjoy the most, more so than all the attention given to the greens.  It's also the concept that I'm trying to get some people at Raleigh CC to understand before they go and make a bunch of changes to the "give" holes and make them all "take" in search of a higher ranking in some magazine.  I'm not having much luck, but I keep trying....

[John_Conley]

Interlachen 12-18

Long Cove 5-6-7

Sand Hills (seriously, I tried to come up with a "best stretch" and had to keep amending it... take your pick)

Somerset 9-12

TPC at Cromwell, CT 15-16-17

Royal County Down 1-4 or 16-18

Forest Lake 11-14

Golden Valley 5-8

[Pete Buczkowski]

Pete,

I was going to comment that I'd be surprised if anyone listed a Ross course on this thread, because many people look at the "give" holes on Ross courses as being easy or downers and only focus on the "take" holes (#5 at Pinehurst #2, or #4 at Southern Pines).  

The whole concept of give & take is actually the part of Ross courses that I enjoy the most, more so than all the attention given to the greens.  It's also the concept that I'm trying to get some people at Raleigh CC to understand before they go and make a bunch of changes to the "give" holes and make them all "take" in search of a higher ranking in some magazine.  I'm not having much luck, but I keep trying....

Brian,

Maybe its the homer in me or my golf skill level - I just don't see as much beauty in really difficult stretches. There is absolutely nothing I would change about holes 2-6 at #2.  I don't think hole 5 would gather the acclaim it does if it followed 2 difficult holes.  But man, after playing 3 and 4, I can imagine people hitting the wall just because they were too complacent.  There is the added bonus about that stretch in particular - its darn beautiful to look at.  

[Sean Walsh]

Hopefull some of the Australians have played this.  

Port Fairy 11 - 15

11 Par 3 on top of the dunes
12 Straight par 5 overlooking Bass Strait.  
13 Short par 4  with a tough green
14 Best hole on the course Longish par4
15 Par 3 hitting to the opposite direction as 11

$25AUD. Not only a great stretch of holes but great value.

Take your camera.

[LenBum]

Ok, let me shock the group............9-14  Shinnecock Hills!

[ian]

I'll take St. Andrw's finish of 16, 17 and 18 over any of the more scenic options. Great golf holes with great options, all in the birthplace of the game. There are three better holes in a row at many of the above examples, but none have the extras to match the feeling of this finish.

[Lloyd_Cole]

1 - 15 at Royal County Down still gets my bet.

[Paul_Turner]

I have a fondness for 8-10 at Sandwich.  All great par 4s with wide variety.

[Jim_Coleman]

   Teeth of the Dog: 5-8; 15-18.

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

I agree with the Merion 16-18 suggestion as the best closing trio.

How about Bethpage Black 4-7 and Taconic 12-14?

[Gene Greco]

Bethpage Black 15-17

Cypress Point 13-17

Maidstone 8-10

Friar's Head 14-16

TOC 16-18

Royal County Down 3-5

Pebble Beach 6-10

Prairie Dunes 8-10

Augusta National 10-13

National Golf Links 1-4, 6-8, 10-12, 14-18

Pine Valley 1-18

Sand Hills 1-18

[A_Clay_Man]

It's got a wide fairway BUT no real strategy to speak of off the tee (please explain to me the relative merits of being left vs. right in that fairway?...how you can go for it by playing to one side of the fairway but not from the other, like most GREAT risk-reward reachable par 5's).   There is huge difference between the right and left sides. The downhill, and hanging lie aspect of the fairway, increases the farther, and right, one goes. The blindness and formidable hillside (rare and unique while adding variety) and the ravine complete with tree, come much more into play psychologiacally, albeit a shorter shot to the green. Laying back, before the 250 mark, on the left are some random subtle humps that can assist the golfer getting their ball airborne and is the only area one can get anything but a downhill lie, facing that severe uphill shot. Many balls get shot right into the hillside, but recoverable. Many many balls go left down the hill in front of #8 tee. And while not exactly good management, still recoverable from. I could go on.

In fact, explain how there is any element of risk/reward to either (A) the line of play you choose on the tee or That Sahara desert complete with island nastiness', up the left, is worthy of challenging because the subsequent kick from a near miss, is what the hole was likely designed for, before the over-irrigation and prolific drives from average Joe's like us. Then there's getting too close to hill, and not being able to get your next high enough to clear.(B) the go-no go decision on the second shot on this hole?  I sure as heck don't see any.Well, since we're talking about your game, I won't comment, but imagine yourself being just not as long as you are, or that you missed your shot, or the wind is up. Now, do you think the sphynctier puckers up tight in those situations? It's wide, but it ain't that wide. And it's protected, but not as protected as many greens, requiring little in the way of a forced carry.  How about the unknown wind, when transfering from different elevations, and exposures? Isn't that unpredictableness an aspect of greatness?



The green is good, but not great.  I do like the slope in front. There is much more going-on on that green than just the front. There's the vertical spine which influences all the sections of that green. Heck, just having Pt. Lobos within eye sight is enough to make the frequent visitor, think twice about what their putt will do. All in all, that green is a lesson in subtlety and is possibly the hardest green to learn, to the point of certainty, on that course. If that doesn't translate to great, nothing will.

Dave- Let's look at all the par 5's at Pebble in the context of flow. Everyone knows the old tag about scoring at Pebble. The sixth is likely your last chance for romance, before the 'holding on for dear life', begins. Once again, Dave, we have a hole that offers multiple challenges, to all levels of player, and fits perfectly into the flow. Saving the harder Par 5's for the finishing stretch. And BTW the 14th's difficulty is directly related to the almost breather aspect of 15. See how they are all inter-related?

[Mark Brown]

redanman:

you are dead wrong. a course doesn't have to be 60 years old to be good. The Quarry course is ususally firm and fast and will eat your lunch. Let's give some modern courses a chance at least. Half of Donald Ross courses were mailed.

Is it so cool to only like the golden era classics that we can't praise any of the modern architects and their courses including Nicklaus and Fazio. Beauty is a significant part of the golf experience, so open your mind and your eyes.

[Shane Gurnett]

The sandbelt in Melbourne has a few:

Victoria 12-16
RM West 3-7
Kingston Heath 6-10
Commonwealth 14-18

I'd also nominate:

13th Beach 7-11
Kooyonga 8-12

[wsmorrison]

Rolling Green 8-15 is a solid great stretch of holes

[Brian_Gracely]

Tobacco Road 1-5, 10-14
Raleigh CC 1-3, 13-18  (ok, I'm a homer...)
Birmingham CC 2-5
Rustic Canyon 2-6, 10-15
Prestwick 15-18
Portstewart 1-5

CPC 6-11.  Does any other stretch on the planet combine a better use of forest & dunes, give & take, strategic bunkering and shot variety?

And I second Bob Huntley's choice of MPCC Dunes 10-14, but I'd extend it to include the all-world #9.  But maybe I'm just jaded by my first-time eagle and his corresponding, "look around you, this might be your last visit" quip  

[wsmorrison]

Lehigh and Rolling Green are both very good courses.  

Lehigh vs. Rolling Green?  Wrong again, redanman.  I've learned not to try and convince you of anything--there are far better things to do in life, like picking up my dog's poop in the yard    Rolling Green 1-18 beats Lehigh handedly.  You'd need a Korean Olympic boxing judge to decide this mismatch in Lehigh's favor.  Maybe some in the treehouse that have played both will chime in.  Here's how I see it.

1 AS
2 RG+1
3 RG+2
4 RG+1 (very close but since I saw John Chassard make eagle here, I"ll give the slightest edge to L)
5 RG+2
6 RG+1
7 RG+2
8 RG+3
9 RG+4
10 RG+3 (it was close)
11 RG+3
12 RG+4
13 RG+5
14 RG+6
15 RG+7
16 RG+7
17 RG+6
18 RG+7

I know a certain head pro friend of mine that thinks its a bit closer, but not much.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()