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Tim Taylor

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Regional Architects?
« on: August 19, 2004, 08:32:25 PM »
One thing that fascinates me is the ability of a regional golf economy to support numerous "local" architects. For instance, in my area Ed Ault and his successors Brian Ault and Tom Clark and Lindsay Ervin seem to have designed a lot of courses. Often these are middle of the road, public access courses. Nothing extraordinary, but still necessary for a region to have a thriving golf economy.

Who are some of the other regional architects? It seems like Mr. Brauer might fit this category in the Plains region. Although a quick check of his site reveals projects in the South and California too!

TimT
Golf Club at Lansdowne

Smokey_Pot_Bunker

Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2004, 08:55:39 PM »
Tim,

Having just moved away from the PHX area I can say without a doubt that Greg Nash and Gary Panks each have a number of courses under their belts in the area.

With that being said I'd also have to say that they both have projects elsewhere in the southwest but a great deal of their courses do have an epicenter of the PHX area.

IMHO from experience the architects that have courses being close to their offices seem to get just that little bit more TLC during the construction process, however that in way means their other courses are of any lesser quality because they don't happen to be around the corner.


A.G._Crockett

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Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2004, 09:07:13 PM »
Williard Byrd and Clyde Johnston have done lots of work in the SE; do they have courses elsewhere?

Also, Bill Bergin is a terrific young architect who has done several very good courses in Tennessee and Alabama, including the University Club course at Auburn.  He is completing a course in Dothan, AL right now, and is in the process of a Ross restoration in Chattanooga.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Daryl "Turboe" Boe

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Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2004, 10:44:56 PM »
Tom Jackson who lives here in Greenville is kind of Mr. Carolina and has numerous designs in Myrtle Beach.
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"Time spent playing golf is not deducted from ones lifespan."

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Brad Swanson

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Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2004, 11:35:45 PM »
Dick Phelps has done alot of work in Colorado.  Thankfully his son Rick got his golf course architecture genes from his mom. :-\ ???


Cheers,
Brad Swanson

S. Huffstutler

Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2004, 11:46:41 PM »
Gordie Lewis in SW Florida.

Scott_Burroughs

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Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2004, 12:02:24 AM »
Gene Hamm and Dan Maples are (were in Hamm's case, retired) two more mid-Atlantic/Carolinas architects.

Langford and Moreau were basically midwest guys, weren't they?

Egan, west.

jg7236

Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2004, 12:18:37 AM »
Clive Clark-Palm Springs area

David Kelly

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Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2004, 12:27:23 AM »
Schmidt and Curley primarily build courses in So. California, Arizona and Nevada but they also have what looks to be a thriving practice in the Far East with many courses built in China, Thailand, and Japan.
http://www.schmidt-curley.com/projects.html
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

BCrosby

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Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2004, 08:18:53 AM »
Mike Young in Georgia. He has done 23 courses in the state. Several in other states and Central America.

One of the reasons Mike and other regional architects are successful is that they understand the unique soil and weather conditions in their region.

In the SE, you gotta know how to deal with clay soils - for both agronomic and drainage reasons. You gotta know how to deal with high humidity, low rainfall summers. And Berrnuda grass has to be your best friend.

Mike understands all those things in his bones. It's one of the reasons his courses "fit" the terrain so well. I wish Mike's work got more recognition outside the region. He deserves it.


Bob

Tim Taylor

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Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2004, 09:03:13 AM »
Awesome, thanks for the replies. Now I can look into the work of some of these guys for the next time I visit those areas.

TimT
Golf Club at Lansdowne

Greg Holland

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Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2004, 09:59:58 AM »
Although he had a pretty large portfolio and received national recognition, I would add Ellis Maples to the list too.  His 70 or so courses, I believe, are limited to NC, SC and VA.  He got his start under Donald Ross (Maples' father was Ross's right hand man and Pinehurst Greenkeeper/construction super), and designed many well-regarded courses.  His most acclaimed courses are Grandfather Mountain and CCNC - Dogwood (both in NC).  He also did Forest Oaks and Bermuda Run (both of which host/hosted PGA events), Carlson Farms, Deep Springs, Keith Hills, Pinehurst No. 5, Woodlake in Vass and finished Raleigh CC after Ross died.  He did Wintergreen's Devil's Knob course in VA, and Columbia CC in SC.

I think, Maples, like Ross, let mother nature guide him as he routed courses.  He used water hazards frequently and often has at least one hole with a heroic carry over water to a green perched just yards above.  His routings are characterized by lots of variety as well.  He also used false fronts and deceptive cross bunkers 40-60 yards short of a green to good effect.  His greens have lots of undulation and subtle contours to add interest.  I find his courses very enjoyable.  

Jeff_Mingay

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Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2004, 10:05:29 AM »
Doug Carrick has done a majority of his golf courses in the Greater Toronto area.
jeffmingay.com

Joel_Stewart

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Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2004, 11:51:46 AM »
Robin Nelson has over 30 courses in Hawaii.

Kyle Phillips is becoming big in Sacramento.

Jim Engh is now the top dog in Colorado.

Gil Hanse has 3 course in Philly.

All of the above mentioned live in their respected areas except Robin Nelson who just recently moved from Hawaii back to California.

John_Conley

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Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2004, 12:14:32 PM »
Lloyd Clifton - also seen as Clifton, Ezell, & Clifton - did a ton of work around Orlando.

Joel Goldstrand has done a lot of courses I like in Minnesota.  So has Don Herfort, but the joke was that he sold them all the same plans!

W.H. Cosgrove

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Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2004, 12:19:50 PM »
John Steidel and Bunny Mason inthe Pacific NW.  Interstingly,John Harbottle III from Tacoma seems to do most ofhis work in Nevada ansd California

Daryn_Soldan

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Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2004, 12:26:21 PM »
Don Sechrest out of Kansas City has done numerous courses in Kansas, Missouri and Oklahoma.  Most of these have been very nice public course projects.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2004, 12:27:18 PM by Daryn_Soldan »

Craig Van Egmond

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Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2004, 02:42:21 PM »

Bill Overdorf and Jack Frei in the state of Washington.

Floyd Farley built more golf courses in Oklahoma than anyone else.

Randy Hackenkemper has done the lion share of his work in Oklahoma.


Steve_ Shaffer

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Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2004, 05:06:35 PM »
Chip Powell( www.powellgolf.com) is noted in SW Florida. I played his new Venetian Golf & River Club and was very impressed with his work. So was Ron Whitten:
www.golfdigest.com/courses/critic/index.ssf?/courses/critic/venetian.html
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Craig Disher

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Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2004, 08:08:57 PM »
Tim,
In our area, Joel Weiman\ designed Uplands on the eastern shore. I haven't been over for a visit yet but I've heard it is a very nice piece of work.

Cliff Hamm

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Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2004, 09:02:15 PM »
New England:

The obvious answer Mr. Cornish with Brian Silva and Mark Mungeam his heirs, although a bit more national in scope.  Others include Phil Wogan and Brad Booth.  It's too bad that these regional architects don't expand a bit so that different regions of the country could be exposed to different architectural designs/philosophies.  For example, Dan Maples designed a course in Maine (Dunegrass) which has a strong Carolina flavor to it and is a nice change of pace from the typical NE design.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2004, 09:23:03 PM by Cliff Hamm »

ian

Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2004, 09:16:51 PM »
"It's too bad that these regional architects don't expand a bit so that different regions of the country could be exposed to different architectural designs/philosophies."

Cliff,

All architects would work in other areas if they could, we are regional because we are cost effective at home. That is why we dominate in Toronto and have a harder time getting work in other regions.



I get the impression that people think getting work is easy. Its not, it takes far more time and effort than most people thing. Locally we benefit through referals, nationally you need marketing or a sales team. A small office can not afford this until they produce a lot of work.

Ever thought that some architects choose to be regional to spend more time raising a family than becoming a famous architect?

Cliff Hamm

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Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2004, 09:27:37 PM »
Ian

Good points, especially about priorities.  Could not agree more that  family and quality of life should come before work...I also should have phrased it differently.  Did not mean to 'fault' architects for being regional but rather courses to be that don't ever look beyond their own backyard.  

Cliff

ian

Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2004, 10:22:15 PM »
Cliff,

What you will find is generally most are well travelled, but just don't get an opportunity to work in another area. Truthfully, some don't deserve the opportunity but that is a different story.

To use our own firm as an example. We have built courses in Hungary and Austria; and we are currently building a course for DeVere right beside Loch Lomond. We also have a new project in Ireland too. Still other than my renovation/restoration work, we have been given no opportunity to work in the US; despite much effort.

Now we concentrate on finding work in Europe, and for the most part, make a minimal effort in the US. So to people in the US, we will remain an unknown (or those regional Toronto guys).

I had always hoped that this site would shed some light on "regional" guys who are trying to do interesting things.
Occasionally there are great posts, but usually it is the same old mix of hero worship and architect bashing that offers nothing.

Neal_Meagher

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Re:Regional Architects?
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2004, 01:04:12 AM »
At the risk of delving into some potentially controversial territory with this group, I would be quite remiss not to offer up the oeuvre of Robert Muir Graves.

This was a man who took a very average golf game and yet created 75 courses that are played to this day by golfers of all skill and economic levels.  He never worked for anyone else (in fact, the only designer he even considered working for in the late 50's was the noted landscape architect Thomas Church), instead being self-taught in the age of Trent Jones.

His work throughout the western U.S. is ubiquitous to say the least, with most of his courses being a product of their times, the 1960's through the 1980's.  For the most part they feature very good routings on fairly good parcels of land that lent themselves to the  creation of courses that the average guy could navigate around in a timely fashion with the promise of a cool beverage at the finish.

Some of his work that has fared better than others would have to include the original 18 at Port Ludlow just west of Seattle, Canterwood just southwest of Seattle, La Purisima (with Damian Pascuzzo) outside of Santa Barbara and numerous others.  While the majority of his work was in the west, he did venture forth to Malaysia and into Canada.

I know that many on this site would have the tendency to lump most of his other work into one camp; I simply would like to say that comparisons of that nature are unfair and do not tell the full story.  Few of his creations have failed for either economic or agronomic reasons and are still a challenge to those who play them every day of the year.

Renovations abounded as well for this man's career, and this is indeed a Pandora's box of potentially controversial discourse.  I just want to point out that we all operate within the time frame that chooses us.  We don't choose it.  He did a good job of fulfilling the wishes of those who hired him for the purposes of the time.  Quite simply, times have now changed and some of his prior work has come in for some change itself.  That, my friends, is evolution.

As a mentor, I couldn't have asked for a finer individual from whom to learn the basics of golf design.  His wit was keen and his interests both within and without golf were extensive.

All of which gives me pause whenever I read scathing reviews of works done in another time for reasons and goals long since forgotten.  For all who knew him, he is missed.  For many more who didn't, they'll get up at 6:00 a.m. tomorrow morning, tee off around 7:00 a.m. and then cuss him on around the third hole.  Then they'll have a cool beverage when they finish then go on with their lives.  Until next Saturday.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2004, 01:06:18 AM by Neal_Meagher »
The purpose of art is to delight us; certain men and women (no smarter than you or I) whose art can delight us have been given dispensation from going out and fetching water and carrying wood. It's no more elaborate than that. - David Mamet

www.nealmeaghergolf.com