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Michael Moore

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Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« on: August 18, 2004, 12:36:10 AM »
In the style of and with many thanks to Ran Morrissett.

Longmeadow Country Club
Longmeadow, Massachusetts
Donald Ross, 1924
6757 yards



Some have called me an unappreciative snot nose who merely snipes from the sidelines. To them I say "Behold my Ran-style summary of the venerable Longmeadow Country Club in Longmeadow, Massachusetts."

Designed by Donald Ross in 1922, Longmeadow traverses a magnificent property which has a little bit of everything, from the severe slopes which demarcate a number of fairways and green sites to the vast plains of  the first and tenth holes which seem to swallow tee shots and stretch to the horizon.

The green complexes of Longmeadow do not disappoint. The interior contours range from the five foot-tall standing wave in the middle of the seventh green to the unreadable subtleties of the fourteenth. There are dozens of  greenside bunkers, but never do they crowd or encroach, and most offer a reasonable chance of recovery. In typical Ross fashion, each green is placed just so, either on top of a natural plateau or tucked neatly into a corner.
   
Ron Prichard authored a loving master plan in 1999, and most of it has been executed. Trees have been cut down, bunkers have been replaced,  and the fairways have been widened to restore the original angles of play.

Longmeadow plays to 6757 yards, perhaps the "longest" course of its length anwhere. The course plays to a par of 70, and the scorecard begins with 436, 439, 601, and features 453, 447, 439, 449, and 238 along the way.


Holes of note

3 - 601 yards


If the golfer manages to draw his tee ball onto a small and faraway landing area, the reward is being able to see down the rest of this sprawling masterpiece.



From here, perhaps in the rough, perhaps on a downslope, the golfer must decide how much of the ever-narrowing fairway to chew off on his way to the magnificent heaving green.



4 - 134 yards



It's do or die at the fourth, which slopes severely from top left to bottom right. There is no acceptable miss, as the author discovered when his perfect explosion from the left hand bunker casually rolled thirty feet by the cup. The fourth and sixteenth are very similar, but otherwise the one-shotters at Longmeadow are first rate.



9 - 439 yards

Roughly 235 yards down this fairway awaits an upslope that simply kills and eats tee shots. This feature can be found on several of the four-pars here, and they add substantially to the slog.



A drive that strays too far to the left leaves an approach that must seriously content with a ravine filled with "lost ball" rough and the stacked bunkers. Bobby Jones used to practice out of the bottom one with a nine-iron, leaving the cup looking as if it were surrounded by newly fallen snow.



12 - 449 yards



It doesn't get any better than this. The landing area is a horizontal crest that can either swallow the tee ball or send it thirty yards further along her way. The graceful contours of the fairway continue all the way to, through, and beyond the green.





12 - 238 yards

Not exactly your typical bunkerless runuppable extra-long three-par. This green falls away on all sides, steeply at times, and features fantastic interior contours. Extremely difficult.





17 - 423 yards

When I say that Donald Ross pulled this one out of his ass, I mean it with the greatest respect towards his singular genius with course routings. This fairway goes along merrily for 260 yards, at which point it ends in a steep downslope of foot high rough. Thirty feet below and forty yards away the hole picks up again, radically curving around another embankment on its way to the gentle and bunkerless green.


Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

TEPaul

Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2004, 05:55:35 AM »
Michael:

That course just looks so "Donald Ross" I can't stand it!

What do you mean some have called you an unappreciative snot-nose who just snipes from the sidelines? You just send Uncle Tom here a list of who those clowns are who said that about you and I'll whup their asses and send them all to bed without no supper!

TEPaul

Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2004, 05:59:26 AM »
Michael:

You could do me a real favor if you could find out what the evolution of those bunkers in those photos has been. In other words have they been redone recently and by whom? If you could flitch up any old comparative photos of how they looked at any time in the more distance past that would also be terrific to know!

Whoops, belay that--I missed the part in your initial thread about Ron Prichard. That looks like some great Ross restoration work but it'd still be nice to see some comparative photos from as long ago as possible and anything else in the interim. Those bunkers look a whole lot like the recent work on both Aronimink (Prichard) and GMGC (Hanse).

Of course I fully expect Tom MacWood to come on here and claim that Longmeadow CC made a huge mistake by not restoring those bunkers to the original look of somebody like JB McGovern or Ross's New England foreman Harvey Twiddleedum!
« Last Edit: August 18, 2004, 06:06:49 AM by TEPaul »

T_MacWood

Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2004, 06:35:27 AM »
Michael
Excellent report.

TE
To be honest I'm not familiar with Longmeadow. Off the top of my head the only vintage photo I recall seeing is in GOLF HAS NEVER FAILED ME (that same photo is in THE GOLDEN AGE).

TEPaul

Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2004, 07:01:00 AM »
Tom MacWood:

Thanks for that. It does look like the Prichard restored bunkers are a good representation or restoration of the old look of the Ross bunkers of Longmeadow. It looks like maintenance ought to let those grass faces grow out some and maybe get a tad more rugged and irregular alone the sand/grass juxtapostion. (if they were redone in 1998, they've had plenty of time to do that!  ;) ).

But wait a minute, if the phote of the 9th at Longmeadow in "The Golden Age" is correct and the photo of the 9th in this thread is correct what the hell has happened?---they don't look remotely like the same hole or green to me. What has Longmeadow done--gone and rerouted their Donald Ross course?

Michael Moore, wipe your nose immediately and get on this important question!!
« Last Edit: August 18, 2004, 07:01:46 AM by TEPaul »

T_MacWood

Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2004, 07:29:28 AM »
TE
The caption in GOLF HAS NEVER FAILED ME is "These pot bunkers at the ninth at Longmeadow CC, Springfield, MA, have sand pulled to the top."

These new bunkers look like your prototypical Ross bunker...which are quite popular now days. I don't see whole lot of irregularizing in their future.

Forget Michael getting on it...you need to get on it!
« Last Edit: August 18, 2004, 07:32:40 AM by Tom MacWood »

TEPaul

Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2004, 07:44:43 AM »
Tom:

Those bunkers in the photo in both "Golf Has Never Failed Me" and "The Golden Age" of Longmeadow's 9th are a very similar look to what's at GMGC and Aronimink and better yet what those photos on here of Longmeadow's bunkers are now. Both you and Donald Ross's photo caption probably ought to reconsider the meaning of "with sand pulled to the top".

With all due respect it's not me who needs to get on it, it's you who really needs to GET OFF IT! You've just admitted this morning you know very little about Longmeadow and I know you've never been to either GMGC or Aronimink.

Some of the things you say on here in the name of God know what--probably some type of misguided super-purity has gotten really laughable. I'd take you a lot more seriously if you'd even been to some of these courses---but not until!
« Last Edit: August 18, 2004, 07:45:41 AM by TEPaul »

Mike_Sweeney

Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2004, 07:54:58 AM »

Holes of note

3 - 601 yards


If the golfer manages to draw his tee ball onto a small and faraway landing area, the reward is being able to see down the rest of this sprawling masterpiece.



From here, perhaps in the rough, perhaps on a downslope, the golfer must decide how much of the ever-narrowing fairway to chew off on his way to the magnificent heaving green.



Mr. Moore,

If I have one GCA-like pet peeve, it is when fairways are cut away from bunkers, thus allowing the ball to stop in the rough before it reaches the bunker. This is a great example of widening the fairway to allow the balls to bounce and not just fly into the bunker. Hope to see it in person someday.

You should ask Ran to post this on the My Home Course section before it gets lost in the archives.

TEPaul

Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2004, 08:29:19 AM »
Michael:

If you took those photos it looks like you took them in the fall and I'm glad you did because it's so easy to pick out the pine trees. I don't know that golf course but my strong sense is it's be a whole lot better than it is now if that club could get as many of those remaining pine trees off their course as possible!

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2004, 10:14:54 AM »
I thought Longmeadow was awesome after a brief walk over the property.

Loved some holes that Michael hasn't shown: 2,5,8,10,18.  Great terrain with some unusual little ravines.

To my eye, it looked like the 7th isn't original.  Did the driving range destroy it?  Also, the background to the 6th looks wrong, with the stacked tees for that 7th.  

Only minor quibbles though.  The course is a match for other better known Ross courses.
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2004, 10:55:41 AM »
Some have called me an unappreciative snot nose who merely snipes from the sidelines.

Wait a second here, watch the slander.  Michael is not unappreciative.    8)


Thanks for the pics and write-up, you sniping, snot-nose.   ;)

TEPaul

Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2004, 11:24:27 AM »
"Some have called me an unappreciative snot nose who merely snipes from the sidelines."

I agree with Scott, that does sound like somebody trying to slander Michael. What could they possibly mean by 'merely' and 'sidelines'?

Thanks for those great photos and writeup you unappreciative snot nose little sniper.  ;)

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2004, 11:39:19 AM »
Regarding the length of Longmeadow...

The course has only two par 5s - the unattainable 601 yard uphill hole pictured and a reachable #10 that probably checks in just under 500.

The course has two very short par 3s - #4 and #16 are probably no more than 135 yards from the back of the box with the latter playing over a barranca and being the harder of the two.

There is a short par 4 in #5, where a full drive leaves but a pitch while some others would choose to lay back and leave a full wedge.  Likely no more than 320 yards.

As a result, virtually all of the length is buried in a sequence of man-sized par 4s that seemingly never stops.  400-something, 400-something, 400-something.

My rule of thumb is to add about 225 or more yards for each stroke below par of 72, which makes Longmeadow a full 7200 equivalent.  (This is why a par 68 like Rye - I think that's Shiv's fave - can be as little as 6000 yards.)

In contrast, more heralded Ross design Interlachen is about 6750 from the backs and par 73.  New tees may have taken that to 6850, but it still allows you to hit more of the clubs in your bag.  Paradoxically, if Longmeadow has a weakness, it might be that there aren't a lot of "fun" holes where you have your choice of playing options for both club and line.  

I'll be up in late-September to see this and the Orchards, as well as Brad's Wintonbury Hills.  It will be only the second time I see it, so I'm looking forward to the opportunity.

TEPaul

Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2004, 11:59:53 AM »
Is someone questioning the total card yardage on Longmeadow? I thought most on here were architecturally smarter than that!   ;)

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2004, 12:10:51 PM »
Excellent writeup on what looks like a fun and challenging course. It's almost hard to imagine how it could end up at 6700+ yards with some of the hole lengths mentioned. Are there any interesting mid 300s par 4s?

People like to pick on Tom M's analysis of bunkers from photos, but there is something to be said for criticising the homogenizing of Ross's bunkers. Maybe the originals were like this and it's a true "restoration" If so, that's great, but if not, that's not a good thing in my book.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

John_Conley

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Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2004, 12:20:18 PM »
George:

Not really!  I'll get you the numbers.


John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2004, 12:30:34 PM »
Having some trouble getting you the yardage hole-by-hole.  Course is rated 73.2/133 according to the Mass Golf Ass'n, a full three shots over par!

Brad Klein is very familiar.  Maybe he'll chime in soon.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2004, 02:20:08 PM »
Michael, Thanks for the tour of Longmeadow.  Hopefully you will not do for it what I did for Crystal Downs ... help to make it so well known that it's too crowded some days.

I must say it looks better than I expected.  It will go near the top of my list of courses to play someday, along with Teugega.

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2004, 02:54:10 PM »
Re: the stepped bunkers on #9. A number of Ross courses in and around Boston feature these. Off the top of my head, I know Essex Cty has a pair. And I also think Brae Burn.

Michael Moore

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Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2004, 06:12:42 PM »
All -

As far as I know the original routing stands.

Tom Paul -

Keep lobbying for that separate area for Green Committee types and historians. Leave those of us who just want to look at pretty pictures alone! Chop down all the pine trees?


George -

436
439
601
134
318
453
184
447
439

483
422
449
238
362
401
135
423
393

Five and fourteen are quite charming, especially the former.



Tom Doak -

Can you get me onto Crystal Downs? Oh crap, there goes my inner snot nose again . . .

Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

TEPaul

Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2004, 09:28:32 PM »
"Chop down all the pine trees?"

Is that actually a question Michael? If so you are an unappreciative snot nose little sniper! Now go straight to the sidelines with no supper!  ;)

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2004, 09:39:22 PM »
In thought the 1st was easily the least interesting hole at Longmeadow.

The second is an amazing hole.  Top shot bunkers, a beautiful curvy fairway with a fall away green and a ravine down its left side.  

The 3rd is a stunning hole.  Must be one of the best par 5s in the country.

And what about the 8th?  Looked like a hole from Hirono but without the flashy Alison bunkers.  Youd drive over a ravine which cuts down the left side of the fairway and then switches back in front of the green.  A fabulous hole.

The 18th is the best Ross finisher that I've seen.  Which isn't a very long list, I'll admit.

I'm surprised that Michael highlights the 14th:  I thought it was one of the lesser holes.

It looked like there were only a few bunkers left to restore.  The bunkers looked young but impressive.  The only criticism that I've heard of Ron Prichard's work is that perhaps he adds more curves in the grass faces than Ross originally had.  I have no idea if this is accurate or fair, but they do have a kinky/curvy look to them.
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Lloyd_Cole

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2004, 10:09:28 PM »
I am going to have trouble driving by the I-91 exit now. Are they taking on middle aged caddies?

TEPaul

Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2004, 10:20:39 PM »
"Are they taking on middle aged caddies?"

Only if they can sing, Lloyd.

T_MacWood

Re:Longmeadow CC - photos and writeup
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2004, 10:25:46 PM »
"I'd take you a lot more seriously if you'd even been to some of these courses---but not until!"

TE
I haven't been to Longmeadow. I hope to make it there someday, I've heard nothing but positive reports about the golf course. The ASGCA polled their members a decade or more ago, identifying the 75 greatest designs pre- and post-WWII (I believe WWII was the cut off). Longmeadow made their list, which got my attention.

I appreciate your advice -- if I'm not mistaken you have not seen Longmeadow either. I'm not sure why you have the impression I am interested in you taking me seriously or not or approving of my views or not. If that were my goal, I'd immediately run out and buy a pair of rose colored glasses.