[Cliff Hamm]

Watching the Amateur this afternoon I couldn't help but think of the recent thread on 'when are stairs necesarry?' when I noticed the stairs on 12.  They are located to the back left of the green beyond a steep bunker.  I thought they looked awful, simply like pressure treated wood stairs.  Also, thought they were clearly in play for a long shot and who knows where the ball would end up if it hit them.  If stairs are not in a bunker wouldn't it be better to ' step' the grass or another alternative that would be both more aestetically pleasing and not risk interferring as much with play?

Cliff

[Doug Siebert]

How are they different than a cart path in terms of effect on the game?  Just like a poorly placed cartpath that goes hard against a dogleg or green, you have to take it into account as a "hazard" on that hole when choosing your play.

[Cliff Hamm]

Perhaps no different than a "poorly placed cartpath." I would hope that Winged Foot would not have poorly placed cartpaths and would minimize other artificial hazards.  I do believe that most would agree that Tillinghast did not have as part of his design wooden stairs as a hazard.  That's not to say that there is not a need for 'stairs' of some type.  I was just wondering if anyone else was watching and reacted similarly and what alternatives might be better keeping in mind the need for access.

Cliff

[James Edwards]

Cliff,

I couldnt agree more, they were not aesthetically pleasing to the eye.  Fortunately, the shot the youngster played to save par was pleasing to the eye in the second half of the final.

[RDecker]

I know Winged Foot does alot of outside events and with that in mind I'm sure safety and liability has a say in matters too.  Aesthetically I don't mind them that much and as manager of a classic era course with tight walkoffs between tee and green I know members generally prefer a path of stone or asphalt or wooden or stone steps to a worn dirt trail.

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