9 vs 10 at Pebble Beach

[JohnV]

What is your opinion on the 9th and 10th holes at Pebble.  They seem somewhat similar to me.  Both are long par 4s with fairways that slope to the right, have bunkers short right of the green and trouble right and behind.  What distinquishes one from the other?  Which one do you think is a better hole?

I've only played Pebble Beach once and that was back in the late '70s so I don't feel qualified to comment.

[Mike Hendren]

John V,

I found the 9th to be far more difficult as there's no room to miss on the second shot, which I found as intimidating as the second at 8.  There's precious little fairway for the layup after a poor drive.  The front of the 10th green is relatively open, providing the opportunity to bail out or run the longer shot in.  Of course, I tend to hit the ball left to right.

Regards,

Mike

[Mike Benham]

I think the differences outweight the similarities between 9 and 10.

9 is a more difficult driving hole, mainly because if you hit it farther than 250 (don't we all?), then you are faced with downhill sidehill approach shot to a very narrow opening.  The bunker front left has a steeper face and is more difficult to play from.  The cliff/edge/beach comes more into play than the 10th.

The 10th is shorter and gives you an option to run it up onto the green.

Mike

[Peter Galea]

The tee for one of them (can't remember which) used to be to the right, on cliff's edge. Imagine that. That was long before I ever played it. It would have played much differently to the fairway. 10 is a tiny green, bunkered severely on the left and is closer to the cliff.

[A_Clay_Man]

John- I think the only similarity between the holes is that they go in the same direction along the same stretch of that stupid beach (hiya chip)
 As for how they play here's my take: The tee shots are not as similar as you recall, #9 doesn't require the accuracy that #10 does and the fairway on 9 doesn't slope to the water any where near as much, if at all. Grant it On 9 the area right of the fairway does slope towards the ocean but there is alot of room (I understand it may have been fairway back in the day) This right rough area is a great angle into this green because of the huge green front bunker which narrows the approach from the left. The real emphasis on this hole is the second shot and without confidence one should think about a lay-up hoping to chip and putt for par.
On 10 the drive is a butt puckerer. The bunker left of the fairway angles slightly towards the fairway and at it's farthest section is somewhat blind from the tee. Most big drives flirt with this bunker and then cascades down the hill taking the slope forward and to the right. This leaves a relatively easy shot to the green that slopes right and at you(slightly). If you don't hit a good drive it is still possible to reach the green in two but on #9 it's almost impossible. One interesting note about #10's approach is if you fail to get over the hill you have in the area of 200 remaining, most people will aim left of the left greenside bunker avoiding the hazard right expecting a slight push. This strategy will likely find your ball left of left of left since few notice that besides being on a side hill lie(ball below feet for righty) you are also on an uphill. So the reality is that you will pull push this shot and aiming straighter is my advice.

Other significant differences are the greens themselves with #9 being much more sloped than #10 and is a much tougher par. IMHO

[Peter Galea]

Adam,
I don't remember 10 green being that ample.

[A_Clay_Man]

I saw your description as tiny so I edited mine, but I feel like it does play bigger because of the less slope and the bigger apron. I guess it seems ample compared to 9's.

[Mike Benham]

Check out the links ...

http://www.pebblebeach.com/1a9.html

http://www.pebblebeach.com/1a10.html

I have always believed that our memories are not the most accurate, so I recommend that we do a site visit, say about 2:00 PM next Tuesday ...  

[Geoff_Shackelford]

John,

One interesting thing lost with these two holes (and why their differences are murky at best today) was the distinct difference in the Chandler Egan versions (circa 1928). 9 was a double fairway with the option to play right, with a small cypress or pine down the center. Going right brought the water into play, but opened up a much better view of the back left hole locations.

I am told that it's not possible to restore the right fairway area close to the ocean because some cliff has slid away, but I still wonder if this is the case or if the unwillingness to restore is a fear of width (and making the course easier). That would be a shame if the reason, but not the first time width/options were sacrificed in the name of "defending" a course in the face of distance changes or out of fear that par's beloved integrity might be undermined.
Geoff

[Guest]

Geoff,

Isn't the California Coastal Commission the real impediment to restoration along the cliff ?

Didn't they hold up work on # 18 for some time ?

[Geoff_Shackelford]

Guest,
I don't know if they would have to get Commission approval to put back irrigation on that patch of old fairway. Knowing the CC, possibly. And even if they didn't have the right, they'd probably intercede!
Geoff

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

The 10th provides a much easier par, for me.  Less than precise approaches can land short and give a fairly easy up and down.  Also, at some 20 yards shorter the approach is a little easier.

I have never found a stance I liked for the approach on nine, and that green seems miniscule from the fairway.  Lastly, missing the green on nine seems to be one of the tougher up and downs on the course.

[A_Clay_Man]

Geoff- I never heard of cliff problems but I could certainly see the company wanting to keep thier clientel away from them. I never knew of the tree but there is a rather large rock near the spot where I assume the tree once was. Top side of the hill before it cascades down. (aprx 200yds out)
One other very interesting feature on #9 is that if you do try to hit a cut shot off the right edge of the bunker, your ball will likely kick into the bunker, if it lands short for a run up. There is a contrary slope at about the 40 yard mark angeled towards the beast. Also, the ravine that sits just short and left of the bunker is one of the narliest places on the golf course.

[Peter Galea]

Clayman,
Mea culpa, I stand corrected. I was at Pebble today and looked at 9 @ 10. Ten green is quite ample, especially comparing it to 9. Whew! The only thing more frightening than that 2nd into 9 is my failing memory. The course is  firm and fast with that tinge of brown we all love. Look for the greens to be really rolling tomorrow.

[A_Clay_Man]

Also look for my buddie Ron Sandler, who is caddying in his first At&t. He's on the bag of an Am and they made the cut. The am happens to have the house to the right of eleven green and 12 tee at PB .

The pro is dean Edwards, A hawaiian living in Vegas. Coincidentally Ron is old surfer, beach boy roadie, and just got married last year in Hawaii.

[ChipOat]

Adam:

What's a Stupid Beach? (I read all your posts carefully).

BTW, did you see Mike Weir hit it behind the tree by #18 green yesterday?  Just to clarify: as he was NOT on the fairway, said conifer became a Valid Tree for that situation.

I still hope it dies.  They should........... oh, never mind.

[Bob_Huntley]

When it comes to an examination of Pebble Beach, one should listen to Adam. I do believe that #9 is the tougher hole, but in many a tournament at PB the big numbers have been made at #10.  The slope of the 10th fairway in firm and fast conditions results in many a ball rolling into the grunch at cliiffside.

[A_Clay_Man]

Bob- Your post got me to thinking about how the flow of the course works from a shot emphasis point of view. In this case on number nine the emphasis is clearly on the approach and on ten the drive is crucial. Going back and over the other holes it's an interesting combination that does ebb and flow. I guess the ebb  comes in most gratefully on 15 with somewhat of a breather.

Chip- Did you see the poor shot selection Wier made there? ANd even if he didn't pull the wrong club at least he missed it on the corect side. I honestly didnt see his chip but I saw a few am's hit on the green from behind that tree. It's mostly air. Just like the beach, very natural like those pesky cypress trees with thier shallow root systems and all.

[Mike Benham]

In the final round of the AT&T, DL III hit:

- mediocre 3-iron and a 5-iron to 10 feet on #8
- 3-wood, 9-iron past the hole on #9
- 5-iron over the green, off the camerman on 12
- and finally, driver, 4-iron from 224, 2 putt birdie on 18 ...