[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom,
What I need to do is go to the Ralph and scan all of the images from the 1931 Golf Illustrated post them on here so we can all see just how close they got them.

That was their target year. They even got Joe Logan to write about it. If they are close, you'll get no argument from me other then the natural grump and grind about Kittleman and Valentine, as well as the never-ending need and want to utilize King Fazio for work he doesn't know how to do.

Neither do I, but I tell you this, I know of at least five architecture firms that could do it a BILLION times better.

[A_Clay_Man]

Tommy- The fact that the work is being fixed in-house, speaks volumes.

As do you, when you aren't wearing lead handcuffs. Keep pushing the envelope, it appears to work a billion times better than acquiescence.

[wsmorrison]

Tom MacWood,

I just emailed a photo of the 4th green at Merion from the 1981 Open yearbook to Tommy Naccarato hoping that he will post it for us.  I agree with you that the style of the bunker surrounds and depth are different today than they have been in the past and is not sympathetic to the Wilson, Wilson/Flynn, Flynn, Flynn/Valentine, Valentines look.  The bunkers today are deeper and nearly all have a much more robust grassy roll down to the sand.  The fescue and grasses along the bunker margins today hide the grassy rolls and make the whole presentation far better.  Although I do like the previous look better, the direction the bunker surrounds are taking now are in a very positive direction.  

You will notice once the photo is loaded that the bunkers presently fronting the green are not in the 1981 photo.  According to the Flynn drawings, there were no front bunkers at all in 1924, a single one on the right in 1930, and the complex we see today is shown on the 1934 drawings.  At some point, the bunkers were taken out (I'll have to find out when) but returned in the recent remodeling.

Tommy Naccarato,

I tried to call you a few minutes ago.  Please check your email and post the 1981 photo.  I'd love to see the 1931 photo shown as well.

[wsmorrison]

By the way, Tommy, the target year was 1930 for obvious reasons although some changes post 1930 are very good (second greenside bunker on left of 7, bunkers fronting 4 (which as we can see was restored), new 14th green and the left greenside bunker, new and altered tees, and other changes).  There were essentially no changes between 1930 and 1931 however.

[Mike_Cirba]

Just for the record;

I completely agree with Tommy and Wayne's assessments in all aspects.  

I also have photos (not digital, however) from 1930 & 1972 & 1981 and the bunkers that Fazio & MacDonald created from scratch bear only passing resemblance to those, and then only in two-dimensional shaping.  Subsequent construction and structural problems (which many of us knew about but felt that we would have been in very poor taste to mention on this website...a very tacky kind a "I told you so" that would have benefited no one) really prove that this was not so much a "restoration" as a project gone seriously awry that required "rescussitation".

I'm glad to see that has been realized by the club, that there is an internal effort to reclaim the look and playability of the bunkers, and that it seems to be in very capable hands with the Superintendent.  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

[Brian Phillips]

The bunkers in 1981 photo look very much like Colt type bunkers that would be found at Sunningdale etc.  Although I like the bunkers that are at Merion at present I very much prefer the ones shown in this photo.

I have never understood the extra bunkers put in the front of that green and to me they always looked forced...now I know why.  Were they put in by a committee?

Brian

[Mike_Cirba]

side by side...






Brian;

Good question re: the fronting bunkers..

Could it be;

A) To penalize balls that clear the fronting creek?

B) To prevent balls from spinning back into the creek?

C) To provide a hazard for anyone attempting to play a ball from the creek to the green?

D) To reduce effective greenspace that was originally created by Wilson/Flynn?

I hereby nominate the fronting bunkers on the 4th hole at Merion as the "second dumbest bunkers in golf".

The "first dumbest" are the recently installed bunkers on the 5th hole at Merion that prevent balls from reaching the creek.  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Great eye there. I didn't see those and I usually look at everything!

Mike, were those there when we played? (Without having to go and dig my photos out)

[Tony_Chapman]

Gents - I am no expert on Merion because the first pics I have seen of the place are the one's on this thread. But, the bunkers in the current photo seem to have a lot more grass and such in them than the 1981 pic. The new ones do seem a bit different than the others. And the fronting bunkers clearly have a different look that the other "originals" in that they appear to have a much flatter face.

Next question: Is the lady hitting the approach "wearing green so she can hide?"  

[Scott_Burroughs]

Tommy,

Getting away from the bunkers for a second, I am surprised that you/nobody else mentioned the mowing patterns on 10 and 18. It appears that they are preparing for a USGA visit with narrower fairways and more/wider rough between the fairway bunkers and the fairway. I will just never get the philsophy of stopping bouncing balls from going into bunkers.

Mike,

If you look at the fairways at present:

#10:


#18:


and compare them to Oct/Nov of 2000 (date confirmed by
someone from area), they appear to be the same width to me
(note rough between fariway and bunkers on #10 and #18).  
There seem to be a number of narrow fairways in this aerial.:

[Brian_Gracely]

Those bunkers fronting #4 green are not in Scott's AOTD.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Those bunkers fronting #4 green are not in Scott's AOTD.

Whoops.  I was going to mention that, but forgot when I
went to lunch.  Thanks, Brian.  Also, notice the various
shades of colors of sand.  In the midst of sand
change/replenishment, perhaps?  

I see RTJ-esque runway tees on #14 and #16.

[Brian_Gracely]

I've seen pictures of #18 for years (famous Hogan 1-iron...that he called a 2-iron) and always thought that the large left-hand bunker, with the native grasses growing, was nearly greenside.  But looking at the AOTD it's clearly only about halfway along the hole.  Maybe it's just the camera angle, but either way it's interesting visual deception:

[Brian Phillips]

Brian,

I went in that bunker and it was still a 6 iron for me to try to top it to the green.

Brian

[mike_malone]

 Fairway length grass is now up to the bunkers in the landing area of #5 and (i think)#14. More intriguing is the fairway length grass AROUND the bunker short of the green on #5.

   Sometimes on this site we shoot first and do our research later.This hurts our credibility.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Brian,
And just think how much more deceptive it would be if you didn't have those first and second cut of fairway lines defining it! (The fairway bunker on #18)

[ChipOat]

Wayne Morrison and Tom MacWood:

Wayne - I would never argue with you regarding research about Flynn, Merion, etc. so I defer to your judgement regarding Hugh Wilson's original intentions regarding shot values from greenside bunkers.  I'm not sure I agree that many folks were actually USING a Sand Wedge prior to 1932 so whatever the degree of difficulty was supposed to be pre-1932, it got easier after that year, to be sure.

Tom - You're entitled to your opinion of what is and isn't "ridiculous".  I don't happen to agree.

Call me penal, but I like the restored/increased degree of difficulty in the deeper bunkers.  There's a few that I would make still MORE difficult if I could (which I can't).

Yes, I do believe that all golf courses with greenside bunkers got easier after 1932.  And I'm not sure that a massive global project of deepening all pre-1932 bunkers worldwide is such a terrible idea.

But mankind has bigger problems than that so I'll just hope for it to happen on a course-by-course basis.

[Scratch_Nathan]

I'm wayyy late to this party, but I repeat what I'm sure has been written numerous times...

Why change what was already perfect?  

Bunker infrastructure aside, the LOOK of the old bunkers didn't need any improvements.  The grassed lips make the bunkers look like a million other bunker-renovated yet ordinary courses.  And of course, Merion is about as far from ordinary as it gets.

[Mike_Cirba]

Scratch;

Yep.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Scratch,

Now everybody here knows why they did it. The USGA has a formula for US Open bunkering, and Merion picked GCA's friend Tom Fazio because he will deliver to those US Open specs. Merion clearly wants a US Open so thus you have the product in these pictures.

Okay, that stated who the hell authorized the two bunkers, rough and what looks like a shortening of the green on number 4. (Scott before you pull your aerial again, I have been playing there for 25 years !   )

Mike C,

Whatever is on #5 can't be as stupid as #4. It basically eliminates backing up into The Creek.  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

These are a close comparison of the way the fairway lines were cut in 1930 on #18, as seen in Geoff Shackelford's "Golden Age Of Golf Architecture."

No, it isn't neat and clean as the modern day version, but do understand Merion isn't supposed to look neat and clean--its supposed to have a rough edged look and feel to it--in fact that may be one of its great attributes--its naturalness, even though its smack dab right in the middle of suburbia and all of its growth.

Do any of you think that the addition of definition in the fairways--these lines directing you where to hit the ball could be redundant to the actual design of the golf hole?  You have an excellent rise past that fairway bunker that is pretty deceptive, which can play with a persons mind when thinking of actual distance to the hole--but then again, we are now a nation and people that rely on yardage books and GPS devices to help us shoot the lowest score--how sporting  is that when it comes to concealing this absolutely perfect example of Golden Age brilliance of using the natural contours and folds of the land.  Merion is perfect at doing this whether it be Flynn or Wilson.  Surprisingly, Fazio never has seemed to grasp this.

Hey, but he's a success financially, and that's the meter which most of America goes by.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Sweens,
You forgot to mention that Fazio wants a US Open too!  

Scratch,
My answer is the same as Mike Cirba's--YEP!

Still trying to figure out where the mystery bunkers on #4 came from. Did the powers that be find something here that we didn't know about? (I doubt it)

[SPDB]

Fairway length grass is now up to the bunkers in the landing area of #5 and (i think)#14. More intriguing is the fairway length grass AROUND the bunker short of the green on #5.

   Sometimes on this site we shoot first and do our research later.This hurts our credibility.

Mike - That's the second¹ insightful thing that has been written on this page. What about shooting at a target that is 2000 miles away, and that you have only laid eyes on once? Talk about your poor aim.
____________________________________________________
¹ ed. note - changed to reflect Wayne's insightful commentary, previously omitted.

[Mike_Cirba]

Mike - That's the first insightful thing that has been written on this page.

Sean;

Kind of like using the shotgun (single bullet/wide target) approach to deflect all valid criticism.

Is there nothing else on this page worthy of discussion or would you rather just ignore those issues?

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