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Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Whistling Straits -- golfcourseatlas.com
« on: August 05, 2004, 09:56:54 PM »
Was paging through my new Golf World and there's a pull out of Whistling Straits. They describe the 18th hole with quotes from posters on Golfcourseatlas.com. "Course designers and wannabes at golfcourseatlas.com have few positive words about the home hole"

Anyone willing to make any predicitions about the PGA? I think that the PGA will do what it takes to make 10 under win it and that unless there's serious wind for 4 days it'll take double digits. After watching the seniors eat up what I thought was a tough course last week I just don't see them keeping low scores from happening unless they do a Shinnecock with the greens and that was 4 under if I recall.

Buck
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Whistling Straits -- golfcourseatlas.com
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2004, 09:13:24 AM »
I'm gonna have to check out that website, Buck!

golfcourseatlas.com  ;D
jeffmingay.com

Alex Chehansky

Re:Whistling Straits -- golfcourseatlas.com
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2004, 11:27:41 AM »
I have spoken with many players on tour recently about the PGA and the numbers that will be posted there.  MOst feel that unless they slow down the greens considerably, 8-10 OVER par will be the cut line, with even par being the winning number.  The superintendant told me they have eliminated almost 110 acres of FAIRWAY over the last two months in preparation for the PGA.  If you look at the course selections of the PGA for the next 10 years, there is a serious run to have a better stage for a major than the US Open; The PGA's way of saying we are just as good as the national championship.  The weather looks fine for the week as of now, but expect colder mornings and mist which will be interesting.

Most tour players that have been there recently shot anywhere from 73-83 on the first look.  Take the fact they are the best in the world and under benign conditions will post 68-78 during the tournament.  Look for one or two under to win...

Dale_McCallon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Whistling Straits -- golfcourseatlas.com
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2004, 11:49:30 AM »
There is a pretty good article in this week's SI (Golf Plus) about WS.  G. Shackelford has it on his web site if you can't find the magazine.  I've never played the course, but it sounds like the PGA is really taking away the essence of the course by taking some really drastic measures.  Par 4's over 500 yards--the pro game is getting ridiculous.

I have no idea what the winning score will be.  I never put much faith in what the players say--they seem to think every layout is tough.  Hopefully it will be fun to watch--I'm eager to see how it plays.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Whistling Straits -- golfcourseatlas.com
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2004, 12:26:00 PM »
I disagree with the author's description of the over-sized chocolate drop front-right of the 17th as a "goofy grass wall."  It makes the hole visually intimidating and punishes the weak bail-out, something routine for hackers such as myself but inexcusable for the best players in the world.  

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

A_Clay_Man

Re:Whistling Straits -- golfcourseatlas.com
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2004, 12:38:50 PM »
Alex- I believe 110 is inaccurate, closer to 15, if I recall Brad's numbers.

Lefty, Why is the pro game getting ridiculous? Who really cares how far a hole is versus it's par? Wouldn't you love to see a 2 or 20 hole?

I'd much rather see the attitude of not embarassing these guys, do a one eighty.

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Whistling Straits -- golfcourseatlas.com
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2004, 12:58:14 PM »
I'd rather see the PGA stick with its recent pattern of genrally letting its winner get to 10 under. This tournament needs to differentiate itself from the US Open. The Open is my favorite tournament, but I don't want to see a pale copy of it two months later each summer.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Whistling Straits -- golfcourseatlas.com
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2004, 02:49:32 PM »
"What they did with the fescue had me yelling and screaming," Dye said. "Because in some places they made it too tight."
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Whistling Straits -- golfcourseatlas.com
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2004, 07:22:58 PM »
In 2002-3003 the superintendents at Whistling Straits-Straits Course reduced total fairway acreage from 37.5 acres to 22. The SI-GolfPlus numbers are inflated, as are the figures for total number of bunkers. They say 1,400; the figure is closer to 1,100. Not that it matters, other than to say there are an amazing number of them.

A_Clay_Man

Re:Whistling Straits -- golfcourseatlas.com
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2004, 09:17:47 PM »
"What they did with the fescue had me yelling and screaming," Dye said. "Because in some places they made it too tight."

Maybe it's just me, but this sounds like inconsistency personified. Now why would'nt Pete want that? That's the way it is on real links, ain't it?

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Whistling Straits -- golfcourseatlas.com
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2004, 10:04:45 PM »
Jeff-
I quoted them very carefully on the address of the website.

Any GCA'ers going next week? I'm heading up with some friends and going to the tourney Friday and Saturday. I've got 2 extra Friday tickets if anyone's interested.

Anyone ever palyed Whispering Pines in Fon du lac?

I've played BWR but never been to WS -- any advice as to what people think interesting places to watch might be? I figure we'll hoof out to one end or the other and find a beer tent and a good rail car to sit on.

Buck
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Whistling Straits -- golfcourseatlas.com
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2004, 12:05:58 AM »
Buck, Whispering Pines in Fondy is OK.  It is a Bob Lohmann design.  It is a relatively typical modern, semi-parade of homes course with some nice holes and views.  But, if you go about 1/2 hour further west on hwy 23, you will be in Green Lake where you will find Lawsonia.  I'm going to guess that with all the influx of golfers, they might have full tee sheets, however.  you can try here...

http://www.lawsonia.com/
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Dale_McCallon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Whistling Straits -- golfcourseatlas.com
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2004, 08:41:03 AM »
Adam,

I'm sorry I don't understand your 2 and 20 comment.  As far as ridiculous goes, I guess that a string of 500 yard par 4s just doesn't compute in my mind--I just can't imagine having to play one.  I have read these arguments before on here, that par doesn't really matter and so there is no point arguing it again.  I hope the course gives the players a great challenge, I hate to see a major won at too many under, but I'm sure if the winning score is high, about 95% of the posters on this site will talk about how the PGA killed the tournament (ex. Shinnecock, Carnoustie, etc.)

A_Clay_Man

Re:Whistling Straits -- golfcourseatlas.com
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2004, 09:39:30 AM »
Lefty- The "2 or 20 hole" was attributed to a short hole at Engineers. Supposedly there was a match between Hagen and Jones and they both missed the green and the results were not pretty.

For years, the set-up at pga tour stops have been so generic, that most, if any, excitement, was being designed-out, due to the uniformity of set-up. That created an animal, that could handle that exact type of set-up,  proficeintly. It was becoming so rote, that the week in, week out venues, were taking on the look of every us open set-up. Thanks to Mark Michaud that is now altered, and hopefully forever.

Mark Michaud's "revenge of the super" illustrated what's wrong with those expectations, of players, and viewers (even though every person I spoke with, loved it). i.e. loss of shotmaking skills, loss of the implements needed to handle a lower trajectory game.

Not until recently have we seen a slight dis-regard for these elite players "feelings" ,and hopefully there's a desire to really test these guys. Not just test them on a uniformed canvas, but on every level with-in the spectrum between ANGC and sewer caps. 500 yard par 5's are par 4's for those guys, not us.

I just hope that the inherent difficulty at WS, isn't softened due to the expected embarassment quotient. i.e. playing shorter and less firm.  Unless it's mother nature who softens her, and not the committee.

Personally I want to see the universal fundamentals come more into play. Concepts like "never give up" among others, should then, re-surface and provide a sport we can all relate to. Not the abilities involved, more of the character.

Hope that helps.

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Whistling Straits -- golfcourseatlas.com
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2004, 11:00:25 AM »
Buck,

I know it wasn't your typo... thought it was funny.
jeffmingay.com

tonyt

Re:Whistling Straits -- golfcourseatlas.com
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2004, 06:09:49 PM »
Almost all three of the travelling majors each year have the same comments reported.

That the players will be nuked by the course.

That nobody will shoot par.

That some of the best players will shoot scores in the 80s.

Even the players themselves saying as much on the Tuesday.

I've heard this 2-3 times a year before a major since at least the mid 80s. And with only a handful of exceptions, it never happens. Sure, sometimes its due to clever caution from the site during the week. But it also shows that a pro shooting 78 two weeks prior is different to 156 of them grinding for their lives when they are in full work mode.

TEPaul

Re:Whistling Straits -- golfcourseatlas.com
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2004, 06:49:43 AM »
Alex Chehansky:

Whistling Straits removed 110 acres of FAIRWAY? Whoa, boy, you must have your numbers off or your fingers must have spazzed on the keyboard! 110 acres of fairway area would make that course's fairway area the biggest in the history of golf by a country mile. That would mean the total fairway area must have been around 135 and that's bigger than entire sites of many golf courses!  ;)

Alex Chehansky

Re:Whistling Straits -- golfcourseatlas.com
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2004, 03:24:32 PM »
TEPaul, meant 10, but wouldnt it interesting if it was 110 removed?

will be up there all week, anyone interested in getting together, let me know...

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