[Tommy_Naccarato]

Yesterday I had the good fortune to play The Plantaton in Indio, Ca.  In my honest opinion, I don't think there is any one architecture group that has done better work in the Coachella Valley then Lee Schmidt and Brian Curley.  I think their courses are fun to play for every type of golfer from young to old to hanidcapped to extremely skilled. Visually they have been pretty diverse, with varying terrains from Landmark Golf Club and Shadowridge, many will see similarities between this course and the Palms. However both of those courses are unique because I have yet to see any architecture firm dare to place golf holes in a live date palm orchardand utilize those very palm strategically in a fun and unusual way.

While The Plantation is a course that many will never get to experience, I can only exclaim that I had a great time hitting shots while enjoying the landscape of a core golf course with nary a single house on it, that has been thoughtfully crafted in and out of date palms and citrus trees.

Many will feel from looking at the pictures that the bunkers maybe on the extreme side, as witness to my cousin who was in them all day, as well as being in a few of them myself--there was more then ample recovery.

The course is somewhat similar to their other GREAT golf course nearby called The Palms, and if I had to choose a course to play between the two, I would take the Plantation 3-1.  I kept on asking myself the entire round, "why couldn't all of the other courses here in the Coachella Valley play like this?"  And frankly, there wasn't a reason good enough I could think of.

Place this one in either the Redanman "Blonds, Brunettes, Redheads, or Tom Paul's "Big World Of Golf Architecture" category, and with courses like this, I will give them a special once in a lifetime exemption for Bali Hate.

[Dennis_Harwood]

Tommy--  I don't disagree with you often, but I do here.

Both the Plantation and Palms are nice courses, and a fine tests of golf-- Both have a great membership and any game at either club is a joy--

BUT, frankly both courses are back and forth in the old date groves and virtually every hole blends together in your mind before you finish the first beer after the round-

I have played both courses several times, but today I could not give you the sequence of holes on either course(and if you showed me a picture of a hole, even though I would have played it several times, I doubt I could tell you which course its on, much less which hole it is).

The overall experience is good, not great, and if memorablity of holes, or distinctive holes is a test, both flunk--

[Allan Long]

Tommy,

Not only are the Schmidt/Curley offerings in the desert good, I'm sure you will agree that their other So. Cal. courses like Oak Valley, Oak Quarry and PGA of So. Cal. GC deserve merit too. But back to the desert...As much as I know you like The Palms, it is quite a statement that you would play Plantation 3-1. I love the Palms, but now can't wait to see the Plantation. How was the routing of the Plantation? Did it have the same intimate feel of the Palms? That is one thing that always stood out to me that made the Palms special. Great photos, thanks.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Dennis,
I do realize the nature of which you speak. This is the problem when you build a golf course on such a flat site as a date palm orchard. Things blend to easy and don't do well in the memorbility department.  However, when they utilize definitive features like good-angled dog legs, bunkers in the middle of fairways, etc. it eliminates the holes that are less then memorable.  I can sympathize what you are saying, but in truth couldn't the same be said about most Palmer courses or for that matter, most courses in the Desert? (With all due respect to Indian Ridge )

My only real negative on the course was three of the one-shotters--all too similar, while the forth, the 13th is a very strong and interesting par 3 that we played into the wind yesterday.

Alan,
I can honestly say that the low-key attitude, all they way to the low-key clubhouse makes this place a delight, where the Palms (built after the Plantation) was clearly emulating it style. It doesn't make one lesser then the other, but if I had my choice which to join, it would undoubtedly be The Plantation.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

BTW, It was a great day in the Desert yesterday. We teed off at 2:00 pm so we could catch some of the evening glass, and it prioved to be a great decision as the humidity the Valley experienced earlier in the day subsided and the wind blew in some cooler, more enjoyable temperatures.

Dennis, Have you ever been to the Capri up in Desert Hot Springs? It may be one of the best steaks I have ever had in my life! (Huell Howser did a thing on it for PBS)

[Bill_McBride]

Tommy, this is going to sound funny, but those photos immediately brought to mind the Blue course at Doral in Miami!  The reason is that on so many holes at Doral, at least in the '80's before Ray Floyd worked it over, you could stand in the middle of the fairway and all you could see at the green end was sand and a flag sticking out of it!  In many cases at Doral you couldn't even tell if the pin was left, center or right the bunkers were so wide across the front of the green.  At least here you see enough of the froghair between the bunker and the green that you can tell!

For the record, those are some good looking greens complexes.  How far is that from Palm Springs in case we do the Heat Stroke GCA outing next summer?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

This is what you would call the Redneck section of La Quinta--Indio.

Actually its very close to PGA West, and right across the street is the polo grounds. Its an area that is growing-up quite rapidly.

[Bill_McBride]

Tommy, adding to my Doral sense of the Plantation is of course the many palm trees!     The terrain is a lot hillier than Doral, but the similarity is strong in my mind's eye.

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

Dennis, Have you ever been to the Capri up in Desert Hot Springs? It may be one of the best steaks I have ever had in my life! (Huell Howser did a thing on it for PBS)

OK now you are dredging up memories of my trip to Palm Springs with you Tommy.  When I saw the pics of Plantation it reminded me of The Palms that we played.  And now your talking about Capri reminds me of later that day at Ruths Chris and the sizzling plate.

[Dennis_Harwood]

BTW, It was a great day in the Desert yesterday. We teed off at 2:00 pm so we could catch some of the evening glass, and it prioved to be a great decision as the humidity the Valley experienced earlier in the day subsided and the wind blew in some cooler, more enjoyable temperatures.

Dennis, Have you ever been to the Capri up in Desert Hot Springs? It may be one of the best steaks I have ever had in my life! (Huell Howser did a thing on it for PBS)

Tommy-- I was in the desert yesterday (my monthly one night check of my place)-- 109 yesterday at 3 was not my ideal golfing weather (it was 115 at 2 pm today)--

I have not tried that steakhouse, but ate at the Fisherman in La Quinta (behind LG's steakhouse) which has the best fish and chips this side of England (and better swordfish and halibut than I can find in Newport Beach)--(one of the best stand in line, place an order, sit with a beer and they bring it to you places around)

For steaks I have heard glowing recommendations for "The Rattlesnake" steakhouse at the Trump 29--

So I guess I have two "must stops" in the Valley I have not sampled yet.

BTW, have you played the completed Clive Clark 18 at the Hideaway (previously CC of the Desert).  I didn't think much of the Dye course, but did enjoy the Clive 18.

Never said that Indian Ridge would make any "top" lists, but many courses out there with homes along the fairways (a drawback) have, in my opinion, a more interesting layout and holes than either the Plantation or Palms, and the lack of homes does not overcome a repetitous routing of holes--

In my opinion I still think the Quarry is the best (although I know the "Fazio name" makes it lose points with you)

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Tommy, you need to let that steak digest a bit.  The Plantation and The Palms are decent courses with a great concept of small clubhouse and great practice areas.  The golf world needs more of these size facilities.  But your friend Desmond Muirhead's course and The Stadium course are vastly superior to P & P.  We live in the present, so give it a few days.  The Quarry is probably better than P & P in IMHO but not as good as Muirhead's course at Mission Hills or The Stadium course at PGA West.
The next thing you are going to tell me is you needed a sweater before the round was over, or you saw a foursome of women at The Plantation.
Dennis Harwood, thanks for the restaurant tips.  How about Palmer's restaurant in La Quinta, I hear it is tops.

[Dennis_Harwood]

Dennis Harwood, thanks for the restaurant tips.  How about Palmer's restaurant in La Quinta, I hear it is tops.

Lynn-- Regarding Arnolds-- Depends on what you are looking for.  

Menu is diverse, rooms are noisy(there is the Open Room with pictures and replicas/originals of Arnie's British conquests, the Masters Room, the US Open Room--and the Library Room(looked around but could not find the PGA Room--I bet there is a reason for that)--and the food is generally considered fair--

Lots and lots of "swingers" in the lounge however, and one of the grandest putting greens sweeping around the cocktail lounge-- Looks like a lot of action of the putting green also--

I put Flemmings (at the River) slightly ahead of the new Ruth Chris for steaks, (of those places that I have tried)--

[Rob_Waldron]

Tommy

After all we went through last November, I can not believe you played Plantation without me! What is next? Are you going to tease me with photos from Porcupine Creek?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Taken from the "Lets Beat A Dead Horse Further" file, the QofLQ isn't a bad course, its just not all what they or many people think it is.  I thought holes #12, 14 & 15 were solid golf holes. On the front, it was holes #4 and 5, and that was it. That is unless you like playing golf thats akin to an adult Disneyland, because that's how ridiculous most of the holes get. (No. 1, 2, 8, 9, 10, 11, 16, 17 & 18.)

Hey, but the view is beautiful!

Daryl will attest to you as I whispered to him many times during the round--"I wish we were still down there at the Palms!"  I did however enjoy my time at QofLQ. Nice membership and a very nice owner who we were fortunate to meet.

And by the way Dennis, I LIKE Shady Canyon. In fact consider it the best Fazio course from top to bottom, that I have ever been on. It blows away Shadow Creek as far as Golf Architecture is concerned. (As in playability and interest, not engineering feat)

Now back to the Plantation!

Lynn, Being that I'm a fan, a huge proponent of PGA West, (Which Dennis is not! ) I would like you to give me your Top 10 courses in the Coachella Valley.  If The Palms or The Plantation isn't in there, then I think you should go play them again!  Unfortunately, I have never played Mission Hills, bit it makes me want to all the more.

Here are mine, and in order.

1. PGA West Stadium
2. La Quinta Mountain (The older private version)
3. The Plantation
4. The Palms
5. Westin Mission Hills-Dye (Lee Schmidt) (a under-rated course if there ever was one!)
6. La Quinta Mountain (The newer resort version)
7. Landmark Golf Club-Skins North
8. Landmark Golf Club-Skins South (Back nine only, in fact, I wish all of the LGC courses looked like this nine.)
9. Cimarron (Hate me for saying this, but I enjoy that course)
10. Quarry of La Quinta

Rob, Got invited on Friday and was out there on Saturday. I wasn't going to pass it up!

Dennis, If you get a chance, and I realize the risks of being blown off of the face of the planet when attempting to drive to Desert Hot Springs, but the Capri Italian Restaurant and Steakhouse is a steak that Daryl Boe would no doubt go bonkers over. I was really surprised by this place. The food and service was tremendous, and they are really nice people.

Steaks are aged and cut to order! (Yes, actually cut right there, and you can walk out to the front of the restautrant and see them cut your steak if you want to!) The prices are reasonable too.  Found out about the place from word of mouth and watching Huell Howser who calls it the best steak he ever had. Now who's going to argue with Huell! Right?

See the bottom of the article:

http://www.aaa-calif.com/westways/roadtrip/desert/index.asp

[Allan Long]

[Here are mine, and in order.

1. PGA West Stadium
2. La Quinta Mountain (The older private version)
3. The Plantation
4. The Palms
5. Westin Mission Hills-Dye (Lee Schmidt) (a under-rated course if there ever was one!)
6. La Quinta Mountain (The newer resort version)
7. Landmark Golf Club-Skins North
8. Landmark Golf Club-Skins South (Back nine only, in fact, I wish all of the LGC courses looked like this nine.)
9. Cimarron (Hate me for saying this, but I enjoy that course)
10. Quarry of La Quinta]

Tommy, I'm sure it was an oversight but I didn't see any Ted Robinson courses on your list

Seriously though, have you not played Vintage Club (Mountain), or did it just not crack your top 10?

[JohnV]

Allan, perhaps we can get Tommy to list his Bottom 10 in the valley.  Then you might see some courses by Mr. Robinson.

[Rick Shefchik]

An honest gut reaction to these photos: the bunkers make me seasick.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

So that's why you live in Minnesota!  

[Rick Shefchik]

Tommy --

I'd put it the other way around -- if I were fortunate enough to live by the ocean, I wouldn't get seasick looking at wavy bunkers!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Right!

Now if Desmond would have built a course in Minn. Does this mean he would have utilized a Viking/Fiord theme for the bunkers?

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