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Brad Swanson

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Modern One Hit Wonders of Architecture?
« on: July 11, 2004, 10:12:17 PM »
A significant number of the top few courses in the US were designed by architects that were One Hit Wonders (OHW) (Crump, Fownes,  Neville/Grant/Egan), although these designs are also products of input from other architects with larger portfolios.  

Are there any one hit wonders of modern architecture (either due to a fast start by a young architect like David Kidd, or a career cut short for various reasons), or is the business today such that the OHWs of golf course architecture are extinct?

Cheers,
Brad Swanson

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Modern One Hit Wonders of Architecture?
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2004, 10:38:32 PM »
Brad,
  I think given the paucity of great sites, there are probably less one hit wonders than you think. I think luck and timing have a lot to do with it too.
  At this point I could list Todd Eckenrode and Mike DeVries as one hit wonders, based on what I've seen of their work, but I know if they get something decent to work with they can do great things. Given Mike's excitement about the Marquette course he did, I would imagine by this time next year Mike would have to come off the OHW list.
   So much of great modern architecture is having the good fortune to hook up with the right client/property. Think Pac Dunes, Kingsley Club, Sand Hills, etc...

      BTW Egan wasn't a OHW from what I have gathered.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2004, 10:39:22 PM by ed_getka »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Modern One Hit Wonders of Architecture?
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2004, 11:05:09 PM »
I think there are some archys who have designed many
« Last Edit: July 11, 2004, 11:10:38 PM by tommy Williamsen »
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Modern One Hit Wonders of Architecture?
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2004, 11:09:43 PM »
I think there a some archys who have designed many courses but have only one or two that stand out.  Art Hills comes to mind.  By all acounts he is a gentleman.  I have yet to hear one derogatory word about him as a person.  Nonetheless, after having played about a dozen only two stand out for me.  The Lakeside course at The GC of Georgia and Thorobred in Western Micigan.  
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Ari Techner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Modern One Hit Wonders of Architecture?
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2004, 11:38:42 PM »
I think there a some archys who have designed many courses but have only one or two that stand out.  Art Hills comes to mind.  By all acounts he is a gentleman.  I have yet to hear one derogatory word about him as a person.  Nonetheless, after having played about a dozen only two stand out for me.  The Lakeside course at The GC of Georgia and Thorobred in Western Micigan.  

I agree with you about Art Hills.  I think he is one of the most overrated modern designers that there is.  I have played most of his "better" courses in Michigan (except Thorobred :() and around the Midwest and I am not a fan at all.  I will point to Bay Harbour as a prime example of a highly rated, less than spectacular Art Hills golf course on a SPECTACULAR piece of land.  Not sure I would call him a "one hit wonder" but definetly overrated.  
« Last Edit: July 11, 2004, 11:42:34 PM by Ari Techner »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Modern One Hit Wonders of Architecture?
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2004, 08:18:22 AM »
Much of this depends on your definition of "hit".

The only person I can think of who belongs in there is Ken Tomlinson, the owner/designer of Tidewater in Myrtle Beach.

David Kidd certainly wouldn't qualify ... he's done three outstanding courses that I know of, but the other two are private.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Modern One Hit Wonders of Architecture?
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2004, 08:29:05 AM »
Brad,
H. Chandler Egan has done more than Pebble Beach.  I used to be a member at his Riverside GC in Portland, OR - a ver, very good golf course in its own right...

Mike_Sweeney

Re:Modern One Hit Wonders of Architecture?
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2004, 08:43:32 AM »
Archie Struthers @ Twisted Dune in Jersey.

Jimmy Muratt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Modern One Hit Wonders of Architecture?
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2004, 10:25:01 AM »
Ken Tomlinson may be more than a one hit wonder as well as he did most of the work at Musgrove Mill  in South Carolina, despite the fact that Palmer and Seay get most of the credit.

Brad Swanson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Modern One Hit Wonders of Architecture?
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2004, 10:35:16 AM »
Ed and Dan,
  I know Chandler Egan wouldn't fit the OHW mold, but Neville/Grant would, wouldn't you say?  I was stretching to prove a point.
   What I really thought would be cool when starting this thread was if someone in the treehouse here could actually, under the right circumstances, become a OHW.  Much in the the way that Crump received input from all of those great golden age architects to create Pine Valley, could someone from the discussion group create a one-off masterpiece?  I know there are those here that think they could. I'd love to see it happen.

Cheers,
Brad Swanson

TEPaul

Re:Modern One Hit Wonders of Architecture?
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2004, 11:22:56 AM »
Archie Struthers is probably a pretty good modern candidate.

But the old timers best known as One Hit Wonders which includes Crump, Wilson, Fownes, Leeds is a little misleading in a number of ways.

Those men weren't just one hit wonders--they were all men who were amateur architects (never taking money for what they did).

Why were they so-called amateur architects who never took anything for what they did? Because amateur playing status was much different than it is today in relation to architecture. In those days you couldn't take money from architecture and maintain your amateur playing status. And all those four, also including George Thomas (not a one hit wonder) and probably Max Behr, and certainly C.B. Macdonald had plenty of money and didn't appear to care about not getting paid.

But the thing that separated those particular so-called amateur architects and the courses they did from the rest, even including almost all the courses of the professional architects is that those men spent so long on the one (or few) courses they did.  

That appears to be the key similarity to their successes. But if you look closely at all those listed they all appeared to have the courage of their own convictions to do the things in architecture they personally felt was right without any fear or concern about what others thought about what they were doing. This definitely was true of Leeds, Macdonald, Crump, Fownes, Thomas, Behr and perhaps to some lesser degree with Wilson.

In my opinion, these men proved beyond any doubt whatsoever that one does not need to be a professional architect to ultimately do great work in design. Matter of fact, the complete independent thinking of those so-called amateur architects listed compared to what most professionals had and have to put up with vis-a-vis clients may have been the best reason those men could create course like Myopia, NGLA, Merion East, Pine Valley, Oakmont as basically their first real efforts in architecture. They basically didn't have anyone to tell them what they couldn't do!!

Today professional architects all seem to be too concerned about somebody's negative reaction to something and that appears to be not at all the case with that impressive group of old timer amateur architects.

Plus all of them literally spent years with their course architecturally and otherwise, sometimes up to ten or more years and that's probably the thing it really takes that no professional architect I'm aware of has the time or the inclination to do.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Modern One Hit Wonders of Architecture?
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2004, 11:48:05 AM »
I like the nomination of Archie Struthers as well. I'm also hoping Tom Paul gets his chance to be one at Ardrossan. :)

Seems to me one of the critical factors among the old guys was ownership - Crump and Fownes were owners (at least in part) and had no desire to go on to other projects.

If you listen to Tom Fazio, maybe Steve Wynn qualifies.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Modern One Hit Wonders of Architecture?
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2004, 01:00:09 PM »
I was hoping to be first to nominate Archie Struthers.  He did a fantastic job at Twisted Dune and is a gentleman as well.

Darren_Kilfara

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Modern One Hit Wonders of Architecture?
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2004, 01:25:28 PM »
I'm not terribly high on the European Club myself, but for those of you who are...would Pat Ruddy count?

Cheers,
Darren

Don_Mahaffey

Re:Modern One Hit Wonders of Architecture?
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2004, 01:52:29 PM »
A more intersting topic may be those who have done a lot of courses and never had a hit! I'll bet Tommy could comment on that.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Modern One Hit Wonders of Architecture?
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2004, 05:53:51 PM »
Tom:

I think you are misreading the real reason Crump, Wilson, Fownes and Leeds were different.  They weren't just amateurs; three of the four [plus Macdonald at National] were, in fact, their own clients!

I'm not worried that if I build a severe green at Barnbougle, people will think I'm nuts and I'll never work again.  [Although, after Lost Dunes, I haven't gotten many calls to work in Michigan!]  The problem is that we have clients to answer to on the courses we are building right now, and not every client will be receptive to our wilder ideas.  Even Dr. MacKenzie had to learn that the hard way.

The funny thing is that when modern architects DO have a receptive client, some tend to really go crazy and overdo things ... probably because they are not as practiced in building things close to the edge.

peter_mcknight

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Modern One Hit Wonders of Architecture?
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2004, 08:48:43 PM »
Certainly H Wilson and Fownes were one hit wonders and great ones at that.  Of course, H Wilson really didn't have much time after designing Merion to do much else and Fownes didn't look for any other work.

As it relates to a modern one hit wonder in terms of an overall philosophy, perhaps P Dye.  He has beaten one concept into the ground all over the place.

Another could be Wm and David Gordon.  While they have the Grace Course, their design there left much to be desired.  I say their one hit wonder would be the Stanwich Club, which seems to be a combination of all the best attributes of SVCC's trio of courses.