Personal performance vs Architectural appreciation

[T_MacWood]

About a month ago I had illuminating experience; an opportunity to play a round with old hickory-shafted golf clubs (1920's era). My own old clubs are barely a step above wood shafts, but I must say the game felt more like an art form with these old implements—from the long game to the shots around and on the green. It got me thinking about equipment and architectural appreciation.

From time to time on GCA there have been negative comments made about courses that max out at around 6300-6400 yards (or less), courses like Shoreacres, Eastward Ho! and Maidstone. You’ll hear it said that these courses are OK or even fun, but they are not true ‘modern’ tests of the game, ‘overrated’ is a common claim. When a golfer drives the ball 300++ yards with the help of modern equipment it is no doubt true, these shorter course’s architectural merits are left in the dust.

If your primary interest is golf architecture and the appreciation of excellent design…wouldn’t it make sense to put away your spring effect drivers and proV1s when playing these short gems?

[TEPaul]

Tom:

It's an interesting point but I don't think so, certainly not generally speaking. Golf courses and their architecture are meant to be played with what's out there equipment-wise. That's the way they're going to be looked at with the resulting opinions. Those are the realities all of us who have to do with maintaining golf courses must deal with.

Some courses such a Maidstone don't really deserve those opinions that they're obsolete due to equipment, in my book. But they have to be somewhat lucky as Maidstone is. It has the wind as it's friend and defense despite modern equipment and it is very lucky to be a par 72 course with two holes that can transition to long par 4s without doing a thing to them. NGLA is the same way. They're both very lucky for it and in a real sense those two things can prevent those course from being percieved as obsolete. Really good "maintennce melds" help a whole lot more than most yet realize too!

[A_Clay_Man]

Tom- Using older equiptment won't remove the subjectivity. Just as spotty conditioning, doesn't alter the genius in the design, one iota. BPB is great example.

Many people need to see GCA, with better eyes. Which implies, not their own.

[T_MacWood]

Adam
Rankings don't concern me...rankings have very little to do with architecture IMO. My focus is architectural appreciation.

Are Banff and Jasper Park examples of less than great architecture because you can not host a major modern championship on them today?

[TEPaul]

"If your primary interest is golf architecture and the appreciation of excellent design…wouldn’t it make sense to put away your spring effect drivers and proV1s when playing these short gems?"

Tom:

There's another and much more real factor in what you may be saying here. For some reason those who have to do with the care of golf courses tend to look at the things that need to be done ONLY in the context of either good players or really good players (even if those who care for courses aren't good). I have no idea why this is but they all should definitely learn to see their courses through the eyes and games of the vast majority that are not good.

Playing with some of that old equipment would probably be a great way for some of those who look at courses today this way to better understand how most golfers look at a course even with modern equipment. If they can do that and make decisions and act accordingly all these old courses would be far better off for it.

[A_Clay_Man]

Tom M- Rankings never entered my mind. What did, was David Fay's (?) ability to see through the conditions, and found a hidden us open gem, in BPB.

Painswick was also in my mind, as a prime example of how a short course, with something like 66 as par(?), has great members. My perceptiion's from this spring's outings accounting, the members could care less about rankings, new technology or the elite 1%.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Tom,

I believe that there is alot of Huckaby in me. I love playing great courses, I love playing with a good/fun group of golfers, I like breaking 80 but rarely do, and someday I want to play at least in the qualifier for the Connecticut Amateur where you need a 6.4 index. With two kids and a "home" course 75 miles from me during the week, I need all the help I can get. Sometimes I think the architectural appreciation gets in the way of the golf, or maybe I just suck.  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom,
Absolutely would love playing with hickories and Floaters, and I can't think of a better way to appreciate the architecture.  It would be a great thing I think if some of us put away these weapons of mass destruction that we call modern equipment and learn the feel and find the soul of the game again.  Just imagine how many holes would become par and a half holes again, as wellas the importance of knowing how to hit fades, cuts, draws and hooks. To learn the feel of touch and distance for run-up shots.

Yesterday, I was just given two brambles and two mesh patterned Gutties, and I'm looking forward to trying one of each to see the difference.  I can hardly wait to play Willowick, Meadowlark and Rec Park to see the difference!

[THuckaby2]

Tom,

I believe that there is alot of Huckaby in me. I love playing great courses, I love playing with a good/fun group of golfers, I like breaking 80 but rarely do, and someday I want to play at least in the qualifier for the Connecticut Amateur where you need a 6.4 index. With two kids and a "home" course 75 miles from me during the week, I need all the help I can get. Sometimes I think the architectural appreciation gets in the way of the golf, or maybe I just suck.  

Jeez, don't curse yourself!
But yes, we are simpatico, mi amigo.

 

[T_MacWood]

Mike
I fully understand the need for a competitive edge, but I would assume like me, you play a number of rounds simply for architectural enjoyment.  If the course is undersized wouldn't toning down your equipment increase your appreciation?

Tommy
I actually believe your game improves when you down grade your technology....not necessarily hickory (it is very expensive), but certainly blades and more standard wooden clubs (and a less lively ball). Why not mix and match your equipment to the circumstances: Hickory at the high altitude of Banff & Jasper or a British course under 6000; blades and persimmon (or undersized metal) at Eastward Ho!, Shoreacres or Maidstone; full technology at most modern courses or US Open venue.

 Actually you can use the toned technology anywhere, just move up to the appropriate tees...which might be a eye opening exercise.

What are golf courses that would not stand up architecturally if you moved the tees up to 6200 and played with older equipment or maybe the better question what course in the high 5000's or low 6000's would be elevated to elite status?

[Mike_Sweeney]

Tom,

I was thinking about this later, and you are correct. I believe that I was the one who introduce our Technology Hawk Alfie to GCA, as I would love to play his hickory stick course someday with a bunch of GCA guys, and I love how Kingsley has a hickory day.

In fact I am headed to New Hampshire tonight and am still negotiating with Michael "Persimmon Woods" Moore for how many holes I actually have to play with my recently acquired (4 woods on ebay for $20 !) George Izett persimmon woods. Now since we are playing in New Hampshire and not Maine, I am hoping to keep my Titelist 983 in the bag ! On the advice of Mr Huckaby and others, I am also picking up my custom fitted Hybrid Sonartec 3 iron tonight on the way in Connecticut. Hey wait a minute, is this GCA or Bomb Squad !

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom MacWood,

Doesn't the architectural enjoyment of playing with the old clubs only exist if TEPaul's maintainance meld exists ?

[T_MacWood]

I think firm conditions certainly would enhance the enjoyment....and reasonable speed, but most greens today are faster than anything the architects could have invisioned.

I met an expert on hickory clubs and playing conditions during the teens and twenties, and he says that courses in those days did not play firm and fast...he claims it was mostly an aerial game.

[tlavin]

Tom,

Hickory is a little extreme.  I think it would be fun to break out the old MacGregor persimmon woods and the MT Tourney colorkrom irons from the attic and see how I fare.  The first time I played Shoreacres I was still using persimmon, so it would be interesting to see how I perform with the old clubs.

[SL_Solow]

Played the renovated Beverly with a friend who is a sometime contributor to this site who has taken to playing with hickories on a fairly regular basis.  I was able to take a few swings with his brassie and really enjoyed the feel.  Suprisingly long when hit well.  Clearly a harder game but a real pleasure.  My advice is to find a softer feeling ball than the current Pro V types.

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