[David_Madison]

This past weekend I had the opportunity to play Cuscowilla a couple of times. For those of you who are going to the outing later this year and who haven't seen the course, you are in for a treat. Never have I seen so much architecture infused into a course with apparently so little being done. And the cottages look fabulous as well. So if you are on the fence about going...

Here's the discussion point. #12 is a 298 yard par 4 that I could swear was done by Donald Ross. From the bunker 15 yards short of the green that looks like it's right on top of it, to the shaping of the green and the entire green complex, and then back through design of the rest of the hole, I've never seen a more faithful rendering of what I perceive a Donald Ross design to be. This hole could have been lifted right out of Mid Pines in Pinehurst. Does anyone know if this Ross feel was intentionally incorporated by Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw, or was it done just because this exact design was believed to be the best thing to do in that spot?

And second question - has anyone else recently trying to create a Ross feel gotten it any better than this, and if so, where?

[Tim Taylor]

David,

Having only played one Ross course, (Riverton CC in NJ, before I could even break 90) I'm not qualified to answer your question as it relates to Donald Ross, but I'm curious as to your thoughts on #5 also. I've never before played a course that had two truly great driveable par 4s.

I've played Cuscowilla five or six times and have hit everything from six iron to driver on #12 tee and have never birdied it. #5 also gives me fits off the tee. I've parred it with 3 iron and doubled it with driver. Isn't that the mark of a great hole?

TimT

[David_Madison]

TimT:

I loved the hole, even though I didn't do much with it.  That huge fairway bunker was one of the meanest looking things you'll ever see. I'm a 1-handicap and hit it pretty long, and I asked the guys in the pro shop how they play it. All said they try to drive it, but it they miss, they'd rather go left. Both times I flaired my drive way out to the right, then hit lob wedge in. The second time I hit into the slope and spun back off. Had to make a 10-footer to save par. My 9-handicapper friend, hitting from the regular tees, hit a couple of 215-yard drives up the left side, flipped on, and barely missed his birdie attempts. Doesn't that say it all, that the average player taking the safe, smart route had an easier time of it than the better player attacking on a "sure" birdie hole?

[Tim Taylor]

David,

I played it twice two weeks ago and hit driver both times. First time I was pin high in the pine straw right of the cart path, lobbed onto the green and three putted. Second time I was pin high in the rough between the green and the cart path and made par.

We were playing the middle tees at ~265/270 yards.

I guess I need to learn how to hit a draw with my driver!

TimT

TimT:

I loved the hole, even though I didn't do much with it.  That huge fairway bunker was one of the meanest looking things you'll ever see. I'm a 1-handicap and hit it pretty long, and I asked the guys in the pro shop how they play it. All said they try to drive it, but it they miss, they'd rather go left. Both times I flaired my drive way out to the right, then hit lob wedge in. The second time I hit into the slope and spun back off. Had to make a 10-footer to save par. My 9-handicapper friend, hitting from the regular tees, hit a couple of 215-yard drives up the left side, flipped on, and barely missed his birdie attempts. Doesn't that say it all, that the average player taking the safe, smart route had an easier time of it than the better player attacking on a "sure" birdie hole?

[Bill_McBride]

I hope you guys are both planning to join us in November!  I will be posting final details as soon as I get food function quotes from the Cuscowilla F&B guys.  We will have a BBQ Friday night and a sit down dinner with presentation by Mike Young and Charlie Rymer Saturday night.  Both can be charged to your room account at Cuscowilla.

It's really entertaining at Cuscowilla that both great short par 4's (#5 and #12) are followed by brutal long par 4's.  The course has terrific variety and a super set of par 3's.

Stay tuned.

[Mike Hendren]

I can't help but think Ross would have cleared a few more trees and widened the playing corridors on 7 and 12, both of which require a drawn driver or a lay-up. As is, neither was among my favorite holes despite my fondness of short two-shotters.  

Mike  

[David_Madison]

Mike Hendren:

I agree on #7 - - the shot felt uncomfortably tight off the tee. From the back tee into the breeze the hole wasn't so short. I wouldn't have minded that width if I could have hit an iron off the tee, but with driver, it was another story. With the front right cup location and the tree short right of the green, it sure was tough. But it was a neat hole requiring a shot shaped right to left off the tee and then left to right on the second - - a lot of shot making for a shortish hole.

On #12, I thought the width was fine. There was plenty of room to hit an iron off the tee, as the fairway was pretty wide 200 - 240 yards off the tee (which was fine for a 298 yard hole) but the tighter area near the green sure made it interesting if you wanted to hit driver and go for the green.

[Bill_McBride]

I guess because I'm a relatively short hitter, #7 doesn't really feel like a short par 4 in the same way #5 and #12 do.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I love discussions of Cuscowilla as well. It is one of the few courses all of us have access to at a reasonable price which just says great classic architecture from hole 1 to 18. Plus you have a 10 plus month season there as well.

[Tim Taylor]

I *SO* hope I can make the trip this fall. It will probably cost me a long weekend in Paris for my wife though.

I played the Monday after Cuscowilla's club championship. My caddy had looped during for one of the competitors. He told me that there were 40 some entries in the championship flight and a dozen or so in the B, C, and D flights. That says a lot about the membership at Cuscowilla, and that is reflected in the course setup and amenities. No GPS, no fancy granite markers with the hole layouts. Just simple signs announcing the hole and a simple ball washer. Golf as it should be.

TimT

[Bill_McBride]

John B, you are so right about the affordability issue.  Especially at our fall classic, $99/night includes shared room, golf and caddy.  Contrast that with my recent round at TOC: 65 for shared room, 110 for green fee, 50 for caddy.  Oh yeah, almost forgot, that was in POUNDS!  

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Yep the old double that number effect. I do love TOC at any price though.

[Scott_Burroughs]

As admirers of classic architecture, it doesn't surprise me that C&C would incorporate features/ideas from specific architects such as Ross and possibly add their own touch/interpretation to it.  I'm sure many architects do this to some degree.

At C&C's Austin GC, the 9th hole is a par 5 named "Tillie" as it has a Sahara cross bunker complex to hit over on the second shot.  As with many Saharas, weaker drives make it more difficult to clear the cross bunkers with the 2nd shot.  Ross also incorporated this feature at Plainfield #16.

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