News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Feature Interview with Ray Hearn and Bob Lively is posted
« on: November 08, 2012, 08:09:42 PM »
While there is nothing better than shining the spotlight on a design gem (hidden or otherwise), that pleasure has become almost impossible to achieve thanks, alas, to web sites like this one. Mark Saltzman’s recent photo tours of TCC outside of Cleveland, Sleepy Hollow, Piping Rock, and Cape Breton are all examples. Another highlighter of intriguing courses is Joe Passov as he travels the world. Back in 2009, he came across one that he liked so much that it was named GOLF Magazine’s Restoration Course of the year. I am referring to Flossmoor on the south side of Chicago. This month’s joint Feature Interview is with two of the main protagonists that made the transformation so successful, namely architect Ray Hearn and the Green Keeper Bob Lively.

Like so many Golden Age courses around Greater Chicago, Flossmoor had inadvertently lost its way over the past several decades. Apart from the core of the routing and greens, little else suggested a Golden Age course. So what, you say? The course was designed by little known Herbert Tweedie. If Tweedie was so good, why don’t we know more about him? The answer is simple. After designing his masterpiece Flossmoor, he died five years later at the age of 41. Midlothian and a few others were on his resume but one walk around this course will tell you that this Scot had an uncommon feel for the game. Without ever the threat of losing a ball, he could challenge the fortitude of even the most skilled. Just read what Bobby Jones wrote in Down the Fairway if you don’t believe me. No telling what Tweedie’s accomplishments might have been if not for the early death.

Give Ray Hearn credit for quickly grasping the unique playing features of this course and then systematically developing a game plan to highlight – as opposed to alter - them. Ray hammers home two essential truths in architecture – the routing is the foundation of any design and the greens provide the heart and soul. If this was on the tony north side of Chicago, gosh knows how long Flossmoor's waiting list would be because it scores high in both regards.

Bob justifiably takes great pride in the presentation of the highly respected greens. More molten in color than 99.X% of clubs in America, his greens reminded me of those at the leading Australian clubs. The focus there is on brick hard playing surfaces that play true, color be damned. The focus in both Australia and Flossmoor is controlling the growth of the grass while ensuring that it never quite dies.

In a lot ways, the study of Flossmoor depresses me as it puts into sharp focus just how much we have strayed from core design principles established long ago in Scotland. Take a look at Flossmoor’s greens. They are simple in that they predominately just tilt but they are remarkably effective at surface draining while totally bewildering the putter. Form follows function in other words and it has worked great at places like Garden City and Flossmoor for over a century - what does that tell you?!

We goofed around on the 10th green where I saw eighteen foot puts break six feet, all because of the green’s pitch! Best yet, any age person can play them as many of the finest greens start off simply as an extension of the fairway. Why build elevated, convoluted multi-section greens?! They are harder/more costly to maintain, offer less good golf and discourage all golfers except those that hit a high ball. Yuk. Give me Flossmoor all day, everyday.

Anyway, enough of the pity party. Golf architecture at its best looks simple yet offers so much – that’s Flossmoor and it is great to make the acquaintance of Ray and Bob's handiwork and to relay that story here in their own words.

Cheers,

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Feature Interview with Ray Hearn and Bob Lively is posted
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2012, 10:52:07 AM »
Ran,

Many thanks for taking the time to tour Flossmoor recently which led to this interesting interview.  I'm pretty sure I was the guy to tell you at dinner some years ago that Flossmoor had the best set of greens in the Chicago area.  To me, the fact that there are so many greens with prominent side-to-side tilt and front to back tilt makes Flossmoor pretty unique in our area, where the dominant style is back to front.  I loved the discussion with Bob Lively and it reminded me of a story about his interview for the Flossmoor job.  He was asked about his "philosophy about greens management" and he said something like this, "first of all, I don't like the word green.  My greens aren't green.  They have some green, some brown, a little purple and maybe some other colors."  That told us all we needed to know about this talented man.  He has done an amazing job in the years that he has been at Flossmoor.  He's done so well that I offered him the job at Beverly twice and he twice accepted and then changed his mind twice and stayed at Flossmoor!  Our loss...
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Greg Ohlendorf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Feature Interview with Ray Hearn and Bob Lively is posted
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2012, 01:26:16 PM »
Ran,

Thanks for shining a light on two guys that have done an incredible job on our old south side gem. I remember Terry Lavin also saying once that there was a great course hidden behind the trees at Flossmoor but that you needed "Photoshop eyes" to see it. Ray and Bob saw it and then made it come to life.

And Terry...

Keep you hands off of our super!!!

Greg

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Feature Interview with Ray Hearn and Bob Lively is posted
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2012, 06:18:35 PM »
Just a wonderful interview and piece, Ran. Thank you to all involved.

I've said this before, but the transformation at Flossmoor has been incredible. I've used it multiple times with people in charge at my club as a prime example of how to properly restore and renovate a classic course.
H.P.S.

Jeff Goldman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Feature Interview with Ray Hearn and Bob Lively is posted
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2012, 08:54:35 PM »
Terry,

Have you played Beverly this year?  I hear that Kirk Spieth has been a miracle worker up there.
That was one hellacious beaver.

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Feature Interview with Ray Hearn and Bob Lively is posted
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2012, 01:57:30 AM »
This is great to see. Flossmoor now can rightfully be called a revealed gem. Kudos to Ray, Bob, Mark, Greg and the whole gang at FCC for doing it the right way.

If my records are correct, Tweedie designed or revised 21 Chicago-area courses, of which only seven still exist.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Feature Interview with Ray Hearn and Bob Lively is posted
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2012, 10:11:08 AM »
I was all set to play Flossmoor when I was at Olympia Hills years ago but couldn't.  It has been on my 'want  to play' list ever since, but alas, i haven't been back to Chicago.  I am even more intrigued now.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Feature Interview with Ray Hearn and Bob Lively is posted
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2012, 10:39:51 AM »
Thanks for including these excellent interviews with two very worthy subjects.  After having the privelege to visit Flossmoor many times since the renovation i concur the greens are really great and truly unique and maintained to a consistently very high standard given the challenges of the climate.  However, I don't think its accurate to call them Tweedie greens.  As detailed in my contribution to Greg Ohlendorff's In My Opinion article the historical evidence strongly points to the current greens having been the work of Harry Collis.  Some may be on the original Tweedie sites such as 5, 11 and 12, but  there is documentation that many greens were relocated by Collis in the teens including specifically 4 and 14,  and the character of those greens carries through to most of the others.  That is not to take anything away from the contribution of Tweedie as the core or soul of the course is clearly Tweedie's as the vast majority of the holes remain routed as Tweedie laid them out originally and the greens on 11 and 12 that are likely Tweedie originals are as natural as you will ever see. 
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back