[Brian Hilko]

Ravisloe is a Doak 4.  No more

Which is defined:

Doak 4.  A modestly interesting course, with a couple of distinctive holes among the 18, or at least some scenic interest and decent golf.  Also reserved for some very good courses that are much too short and narrow to provide sufficient challenge for accomplished golfers.

Doak 3. About the level of the average golf course in the world.

All these so called Tier 4 courses are 3-4's.  NOT 5's

Tier 4: Ravisloe, Calumet, Idlewild, Naperville, Ridge, and Bryn Mawr. Doak 5's. Fun to play but nothing real special.

I would give ravi a 5. The shots at it being too easy are a bit much. What was harder. Shoreacres 5 years ago or Ravi? I found shore to be a pushover preresoration but I still loved it. Ravi is a fun, quirky parkland that is a nice break fron the other Chicago publics. I put Mt. Prospect in the category also. But as far as the tier system. Tier 2 is a lot of 5s with a few 6s sprinkled in. Tier 3 is 4s and 5s and tier 4 is not worth talking about. Chicago has many sound golf designs on boring land. If I brought someone to Chicago what are the holes I would show them to really blow them away? There are better versions of all the templates at Chicago and Shoreacres out east. I love punchbowl at Chicago but is it as good as Fischer's or National's? You could even make an argument the punchbowl at Blue Mound is better. I look at my personal top 10 from the great lakes region and only 3 Chicago courses make the list and none crack the top 5.

[Paul OConnor]

Jack is such a homer... I'll fix this Tier 2...


Tier 2:   Butler National, Olympia Fields North, Medinah 3.  That's it.  Roughly all Doak 7's.  All challenging modern Championship golf courses, that get tons of daily play and are beautifully maintained   No coddled relics here.

Tier 2 3/4:  Skokie, Beverly, Black Sheep, and Flossmoor.  NOT 7's, not even close.  All Doak 5's or 6's.   

[J_ Crisham]

Jack is such a homer... I'll fix this Tier 2...


Tier 2:   Butler National, Olympia Fields North, Medinah 3.  That's it.  Roughly all Doak 7's.  All challenging modern Championship golf courses, that get tons of daily play and are beautifully maintained   No coddled relics here.

Tier 2 3/4:  Skokie, Beverly, Black Sheep, and Flossmoor.  NOT 7's, not even close.  All Doak 5's or 6's.

Paul, 
   Admittedly I am a homer regarding Bev- I love the place, people etc. I need to get you there to see it post tree removal. It's much improved- still probably not a OFCC North but pretty good. Surprised you don't love Blacksheep - for someone of your ability it would really test you etc and in some ways it has a Prairie Dunes /Shinny feel to it. Flossmoor has the best collective set of greens in Chicago IMO.

[Andrew Buck]

The par 5's are an excellent bunch as are the par 3's.  The 7th green matches the hole very well and that is probably the weakest hole, which i think is better then many other long par 3's at other regarded Ross's.  The 4th, 5th, 12th, 15th, and 18th are extremely strong holes. 

I'll admit to not having played Ravisloe since it went public, but did play it quite a bit after the renovation while it was still private.  Overall a very solid course and enjoyable day.  I course I'm comfortable compared reasonably to any ranked 10 - 30 in the area if you were dropped with no knowledge of location, history or status. 

I really enjoy all Esler courses, and thought his work here was very good.  That said, I do find the bunkers forcing a layup on the 18th a bit out of place.  I believe his intention was to restore the approach away from a flip wedge, and that was the only way to do it, but it just always struck me as uncharacteristic with the rest of the course.

[BCowan]

The par 5's are an excellent bunch as are the par 3's.  The 7th green matches the hole very well and that is probably the weakest hole, which i think is better then many other long par 3's at other regarded Ross's.  The 4th, 5th, 12th, 15th, and 18th are extremely strong holes. 

I'll admit to not having played Ravisloe since it went public, but did play it quite a bit after the renovation while it was still private.  Overall a very solid course and enjoyable day.  I course I'm comfortable compared reasonably to any ranked 10 - 30 in the area if you were dropped with no knowledge of location, history or status. 

I really enjoy all Esler courses, and thought his work here was very good.  That said, I do find the bunkers forcing a layup on the 18th a bit out of place.  I believe his intention was to restore the approach away from a flip wedge, and that was the only way to do it, but it just always struck me as uncharacteristic with the rest of the course.

Andrew,

    I understand your assessment of the 18th.  Here is a great older thread started by Dan Moore.  http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,37692.0.html

It's the 1930 (38) aerial of thee Rav.  Notice 5-7, no pond on 7 (1930's #7 looks really cool).  18 is now pinched in, in a penal matter.  I think that it challenges the longer player to take on the left hand bunker, even though there is a little pitch.  Lack of tree removal on the left, detract from the hole IMO, even though it is some what a penal hole now, it adds variety to the course and doesn't stick out like a sore thumb.  The 1930 version of the 18th is much different.  I think the 5th and 11th looks improved from whats on paper from the 1930's.  Look how much wider the fairways were in the 30's.  I really like the present day 5th vs the 30s version (on paper), but the trees and fairway shrinkage really take away from a great drive and pitch hole. 

I agree with your assessment of Esler, even though i've only played 2 renovations.  Mt Prospect was very solid.  Loved playing it with the new grasses when it was really firm, brought out the Architecture.  Last but not least I wanna give Derek Weber the keeper at Flossmoor a tip of the hat, one of the firmest fastest Parklands tracks I've played.  He joined us for dinner at TWGS gathering, but I didn't get a chance to talk to him.  What do you give Flossmoor? 

[Paul Rudovsky]

Am a latecomer here and have only played Dubs Dread among Chicago's public tracks (and thought the second word of its name was an apt description).  Am astounded as how little mention is made of Old Elm in the thread...simple and outstanding fun and challenging track and unbelievable club (perfect without anything over the top)


To my mind, Chicago has five outstanding tracks...in the following order:  Chicago, Old Elm, Shoreacres (played 6 years ago and still too many trees then...have heard they have cleared many more since), Skokie, and Beverly.

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