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Adam_F_Collins

Re:Contrast in Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2004, 03:58:11 PM »
Wow, this one took a little to get going...I was beginning to think that maybe I was just plain reaching too far - but now we're getting somewhere. :)

Tommy Naccarato, Thank you so much. Your post touches on so many interesting points, that I need to take some time to consider them all.

There have been a couple of mentions of how modern courses seem so unnatural - I agree that many do. It's almost like a neo-victorian design philosophy with so much adornment, needless decoration and useless or near-useless 'extras' (picture some vacation-package-brochure aerial shot of one of these courses with like 50 bunkers on one hole)...

Many courses seem now to 'work around' nature more than integrate it or blend with it. A quarry or marsh will be 'integrated' with a forced carry - To me, this creates the most undesirable (yet most common) form of contrast: The Black and White contrast of Golf vs. Nature. And, unfortunately, this has become the norm. Many golfers will write off a course as 'poorly maintained' or as 'a muni' if they don't see this contrived, manicured appearance.


Adam_F_Collins

Re:Contrast in Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2004, 04:00:53 PM »
It brings to mind Tom MacWood's writing on the Arts and Crafts influence on GCA. Maybe the modern 'renaissance' is really just history repeating itself...

Let's hope.

A_Clay_Man

Re:Contrast in Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2004, 04:38:49 PM »
Adam, I'm curious about your disdain for the forced carry? As with all these "principles" we discuss, isn't ok to have this form of shot-testing? Especially when it does involve a non-man-made feature?

Mark_Guiniven

Re:Contrast in Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2004, 07:51:21 PM »
Tom,
Appreciate your take. I just thought the line, which is actually:

"There is no defined line between fairways at the great schools of golf like St. Andrews or Hoylake."

could mean don't go out of your way to separate holes off from one another. Like the way Royal Melbourne merge 4W / 17E etc.

Totally agree with your point about the transition. Did you really ask Mr. Robertson to consider leaving the sheep on at Cape Kidnappers for this reason? As if the Aussies don't already give us enough grief! :)

Adam_F_Collins

Re:Contrast in Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2004, 08:36:20 PM »
Adam Clayman

I have no disdain for the forced carry - Maybe that was a poor example - I was just talking about how so many natural features are not actually integrated any more than to be carried - The "natural" is still visibly separate from the golf - if you leave the "golf", you may lose your ball in the "natural" - many more natural features end up bulldozed, smoothed out and shaped into a more or less typical example of what a golf hole "looks like" much of that might have been the only true identity the hole would ever have.

When I referred to the most undesirable form of contrast - it wasn't the carry, it was the separation of the natural from the golf course that I was talking about.

Thanks for pointing that out - I actually enjoy a forced carry now and then :)

T_MacWood

Re:Contrast in Golf Course Architecture
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2004, 10:29:21 AM »
It seems to the use of the word ‘contrast’ in this thread, could be replaced by the word ‘variety’.  Each hole having individuality--be it unique natural features or the nature of the site varying (like Cypress Point)...

...and/or designed individuality/variety: heavily bunkered/sparsely bunkered, severely undulating greens/flattish greens, a well defined-framed shot/blind shot over a hillock, low profile greens/pushed up greens, wide fairways/narrow fairway, cross-bunkers/bunker en echelon/diagonal hazards/central hazard, etc., etc.

I also believe, as Tom Simpson noted, having a ‘bad hole’ (quirky or less than ideal) or two adds to the variety and enjoyment of a golf course.

But within that variety IMO it is also important to have some uniting character, for example an architect’s style or aesthetic.

As far as the flow of a golf course, in my mind that is related to rhythm and its more difficult to put you finger on—although certainly design variety and architectural style has something to do with it. Probably the way the course fits into the site and uses the site has more to do with it.

There is no one formula: It could be the in and out of dunes, forest and sea at Cypress Point. It could be a tightly woven layout with continuity over very similar gentle ground like Chicago or GCGC. It could be a layout spread out over a massive site like Cape Breton with numerous very long walks from green to tee. The rhythm or flow has more to do with working with the natural features of the site.

The problem with Tillinghast’s quote is that some architects take it to an extreme and you get 18 holes having character beaten into them.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2004, 10:29:54 AM by Tom MacWood »

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