Best Candidates for Restoration

« **Reply #50 on:** November 12, 2004, 03:03:05 PM »

Sam,

CCV Westhampton is scheduled to start in January. I am sending out plans and specs this month.

Lester

« **Reply #51 on:** November 12, 2004, 03:12:08 PM »

What's the plan for Westhampton Lester?

« **Reply #52 on:** November 12, 2004, 03:24:17 PM »

Quote from: Tom Doak on February 19, 2003, 12:19:16 PM

We may have explored this topic before, but I don't remember anyone doing so explicitly.

I'd like to know the 1-2 courses that people think are most deserving of a restoration at this time ... not including projects that are already underway.

The course I've recently seen that is in desprate need of a restoration is Woodcrest, a Flynn design in South Jersey. The course is choked with overgown trees, and there's a very good Flynn under them all. If they could do something like Oakmont, Philly Country, or Rolling Green, they'd have a wonderful course.

The fairways at Woodcrest have lost all countouring too. They're all straight as an arrow. Formerly fairway bunkers are now yards in the rough.

Their greens are really good, and their par 3's are awesome.

I'd LOVE to see Woodcrest restored to the way Flynn designed it.

« **Reply #53 on:** November 12, 2004, 03:27:31 PM »

Adam,
I had the good fortune of playing Eastmoreland the day after the USGA Public Links back about 15 years ago. The course was simply awesome. The greens were wonderful, and the conditioning was first rate. If only the city could've kept the course up.....

I love Eastmoreland. We used to have our annual Nike golf tourament back there in the 1980's.

« **Reply #54 on:** November 12, 2004, 04:10:00 PM »

Cabell,

Rebuild the first hole. Rebuild the practice facility. Restore the third hole as Ross intended. Restore many of the missing or filled-in bunkers from over the years. Renovate the 10th and 15th holes for safety. Regrass greens.

Lester

« **Reply #55 on:** November 12, 2004, 04:13:54 PM »

Rancho Santa Fe---it still has the potential to showcase Behr's architectural genius

« **Reply #56 on:** November 12, 2004, 06:20:09 PM »

Tom,

Berkshire Hills CC

Steve

« **Reply #57 on:** November 12, 2004, 06:25:44 PM »

What are we waiting for, Steve!

Give me a call... I can be there Monday

« **Reply #58 on:** November 12, 2004, 06:51:09 PM »

Rancho Santa Fe should be on the same level as California's other top courses, it could be that good.
With some TLC Blackforest would become an elite course too; the state it's in now is still very enjoyable,though it deserves better. I'd also like to see what Radrick Farms could become if Dye was allowed a return visit.

« **Reply #59 on:** November 12, 2004, 07:17:09 PM »

Shooter, ol' buddy.

You might want to take that Dye comment back (?), considering several respected course critics (architects, writers) claim the first versions of Crooked Stick and Harbour Town are better than Dye's recent redos of those courses.

I'd simply like to see some trees come down at Radrick Farms, to start.

My .02

« **Reply #60 on:** November 12, 2004, 09:33:07 PM »

Oak Hill (west) Put back all of the old bunkers (at least 2/3 are missing) and take down half the oaks and any other trees on the course. Then you would really have something!

Durand Eastman. Bring back all of the Trent Jones bunkering, and it would be one of Upstate New York's best.

« **Reply #61 on:** November 12, 2004, 09:50:55 PM »

Jeff,
I'd be shocked if Dye came back to Ann Arbor, worked on Radrick and left it worse off than it is today. Guess I'm not really pulling for a "restoration" of Radrick to it's original state. I'd like to see what he'd do with the land today, without the pressure to keep all of the trees.
If what you claim about Dye's tinkering is true, then he's far from a restorer. I think most would agree his current redos of TPC Sawgrass and Teeth of the Dog are much better than they once were.
As far as the "respected course critics" claims go, I'll still stick to my comments. What do Pete and I know anyhow?

« **Reply #62 on:** November 12, 2004, 11:37:27 PM »

Tom MacWood,

Hollywood would be unplayable to its membership if it were restored. But, I would have loved to have played it.

I'm curious about comparisons in difficulty to Pine Valley.

Hollywood was intended to be a championship course.
The bunkering appears far more confrontational from a golfers perspective then the bunkering at Pine Valley.

Being only 60 miles or so apart, I wonder if there were any early comparisons between the two courses in the 20's, 30's or 40's ?

Since you never set foot on Hollywood, pre and post Rees, and since you're not familiar with the mandate given to Rees, the will of the membership, I think you're unqualified to make any credible evaluation of the course/work. But, you already knew that.

« **Reply #63 on:** November 13, 2004, 06:53:21 AM »

Two munis, both of which have been discussed here at length, Papago in Phoenix and Cobbs Creek in Philadelphia deserve an influx of substantial money for restoration so that they can rejoin Bethpage Black, Harding Park, Torrey Pines and Houston Memorial in the list of top rated munis.

The only news about Cobbs Creek is that heavy rains caused a flash flood this past summer closing 2 holes and Gil Hanse is working on those 2 greens. The previously announced renovation, not restoration, project involving Norman Design, is on hold for political reasons.

The current news about Papago is that due to water restrictions the City of Phoenix did not overseed the fairways for winter play. The clubhouse continues to deteriorate.

« **Reply #64 on:** November 13, 2004, 08:30:04 AM »

Pat
When I told Ran I was thinking about visiting Hollywood, knowing how much of a Travis admirer I was, he told me I would hate it...because of all the Rees stylizing. Another person familiar with course told me to avoid it for similar reasons. I'm glad I went anyway...the place thrilled me. The bones are still there, and I guess studying the original design helped me invision what was once there. The thrill of contemplating the original design over-powered the disgust in Rees's handling--Travis's genius dominated my visit. What an awesome course Hollywood must have been (and could still be).

« **Reply #65 on:** November 13, 2004, 11:58:36 AM »

Tom MacWood,

Ran's opinion's and write up on Hollywood is a matter of public record and appear in the "Courses by Country" section of GCA.com.

You're dreaming, Hollywood will never return to its former self.

Are you aware of the restoration work that Rees wanted to do that the club prevented him from doing ?

The MEMBERS have determined what they want their golf course to be, and it's not the golf course from the photo I supplied.

Rees only moved one green, # 17, which was the olde 7th, and not suitable for 3-wood approaches which were required at # 17.

What specifically didn't you like about the golf course ?
Did you play it ?

What did you think of Rees's work to the 14th green ?

Irrespective of your tunnel vision, Hollywood IS a great golf course.

« **Reply #66 on:** November 13, 2004, 02:45:42 PM »

I won't go so far as to name it as one of the "best" candidates for restoration, but a course I'm quite fond of that could do well with an "extreme makeover: golf course edition" would be Ross's Triggs Memorial in Providence. Yet another candidate for an extensive tree removal program. Triggs has some fine holes and would definitely be of a piece with the kind of urban muni renewal seen at places like Harding Park.

« **Reply #67 on:** November 13, 2004, 03:43:12 PM »

Hirono.

That edgy bunkering, and less of the current cleaner look would float my cork.

« **Reply #68 on:** November 13, 2004, 08:01:03 PM »

Tony
You've probably hit on the single best candidate in the world.

Pat
You are a huge Rees fan...I am a huge Travis fan...we'll leave it at that.

« **Reply #69 on:** November 13, 2004, 08:38:59 PM »

"I'm curious about comparisons in difficulty to Pine Valley."

I got the unusual pleasure of playing them back to back about three years ago. I found no comparisson in the level of difficulty between the two, Pine Valley was far harder. While I looked at the old plan over a drink, I can not remember it well enough to know what was lost.......I wish I could see it again.

Is there that much bunkering removed? Are the other features removed too?

Tom,

I hope I encouraged you to se Hollywood, there is so much to see just in green contours alone. I remain a big fan of the course regardless of what is lost.

« **Reply #70 on:** November 13, 2004, 08:41:03 PM »

Rogell, a 6,100 yd Ross gem over a cool piece of land near Detroit.

Inverness, which is sorely lacking memorable par threes.

Mayfield (Ohio) is now brilliant, remove a few trees and restore bunkers, then !!

« **Reply #71 on:** November 13, 2004, 08:47:04 PM »

Lester who is going to actually do the construction at Westhampton and who is the architect for the reconstruction, I am a little confused. Sorry, it has been a snowy week for me here at Delhi.....

Chris

« **Reply #72 on:** November 13, 2004, 09:07:38 PM »

Harry Colts neat course near Hamilton,Ontario.By an architect
who might appreciate, and even respect Colts drawings
which this extremely fine club owns.

« **Reply #73 on:** November 13, 2004, 10:29:13 PM »

Tom MacWood,

That's not at all representative of my position.

I'm a Travis fan as well.

I'm also aware of many changes made to the golf course by the members, long before Rees was asked to make changes.
And, I'm also aware of what the members wanted Rees to do.

How do you compare the work recently done to the right greenside bunker at # 17 at GCGC to the work done at Hollywood ? Both Travis courses ?

If you find it difficult or impossible to answer questions about Hollywood, just say so.

Ian Andrew,

I wasn't comparing Pine Valley to the Hollywood that exists today or 10 or 20 years ago. I was referencing the Hollywood represented by the aerial photo I had TN post.

That aerial seems to reflect an extremely demanding golf course. One that would rival Pine Valley in difficulty, despite not enjoying the topography, but, enjoying more WIND.

« **Reply #74 on:** November 13, 2004, 10:45:42 PM »

Ian
No, you didn't warn against Hollywood.

Pat
I just wrote my opinion of the 17th GCGC a few days ago...you read it...why do you want me to repeat myself? How do you compare one messed up green complex to an architect imposing his style over 18 holes?

I've devoted dozens of pages detailing the changes at Hollywood...you won't goad me into another pissing contest. Besides I'm convinced you're tone deaf. If anything I understated the imposing of Rees's style upon the course.

News:

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ChasLawler

Dan Herrmann

Dan Herrmann

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Robert Mercer Deruntz

Steve Curry

Jeff_Mingay

Will E

Jeff_Mingay

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Will E

Patrick_Mucci

Steve_ Shaffer

T_MacWood

Patrick_Mucci

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tonyt

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ian

mark chalfant

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T_MacWood

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