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Mike Benham

Royal Troon - Photos
« on: May 11, 2004, 11:49:23 PM »
Here are a couple of photos from last week at Royal Troon.

Looking back at the green and fairway of the 544 yard par-5 6th hole, Turnberry ...
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From the tee of Tel-el-Kebir, 381 yard par-4 ...[/i]




The green complex of Tel-el-Kebir ...[/i]




#8 Postage Stamp with the coffin bunker on the middle left of the green ... [/i]




The 385 yard par-4 Sandhills (somewhere under the gorse) ...

"... and I liked the guy ..."

Lance Rieber

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2004, 12:04:11 AM »
Mike,
The second and third photos of Tel-el-Kebir are great pictures.  I can't take my eyes off the short-right greenside bunker.  Can you tell me more about the course? Town? private vs. public?

Mike Benham

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2004, 12:13:39 AM »
Royal Troon is located in Troon Scotland on the West Coast and it will host this years British Open.

It is a private club but does allow visitors.

Check out their website:

http://www.royaltroon.com/
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Lance Rieber

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2004, 12:27:22 AM »
Mike,
Do you know if its supposed to be a dry or wet summer this year in Scotland?  I'm curious to see how firm and fast the course will play.  In 97 everybody struggled on the back the first day as that supposedly is into the prevailing wind? Is it a big difference from the front? I remember guys not reaching many of the par 4's in regulation.  It's great to see the wet weather and still seeing players bump and run the ball.  My first impressions of the OPEN were Greg Norman at Turnberry in 86 with the wind and rain howling. Sound like you had a great time, any other gems you played besides Royal Troon?

Pete Lavallee

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2004, 01:15:53 AM »
Mike;  
Great photos, looks like you had a nice day at Royal Troon. Was that you closest to the hole on the Postage Stamp?
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Smokey_Pot_Bunker

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2004, 09:13:13 AM »
Wow great pics.

Is that greenat Tel-el-Kebir hourglass in shape so as to produce a back pin placement?

Tony_Chapman

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2004, 09:18:49 AM »
Mike - Thanks for the link to the course website. Was wondering if you played the Portland Course. A little charmer that is par 34-37 and only about 6,300 yards. It looks quite fun.

THuckaby2

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2004, 09:34:12 AM »
The problem with Tel El Sabir is that most people just blow through it in anticipation of what comes next.. the one and only, world-famous, I've been thinking about it since I booked my trip six months ago, Postage Stamp, which is the next hole and in fact you can see to the right in Mike's great pic of Tel El Sabir.

BTW, can we just use the hole numbers?   ;)  These are 7 and 8.

7 is a damn fine golf hole.  The tee shot offers several choices - you can blast it over the hill on the right, in an attempt to get close to the green, or you can take several versions of going left, at different distances, always trying to miss the bunkers.. The green is then raised, with a pretty hair-raising false front.  You do NOT want to be behind the hole.

But this hole is to unsung like Brittney Spears is to overhyped, due to its location in the round.

In any case, GREAT PICS!  It is really cool to see the gorse in bloom.

TH

Mike Nuzzo

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2004, 10:00:35 AM »
Great pics thanks.
Anyone pick up the "new" club history from the Troon website?

Bunkering like that is pretty tough to create in flatsville and clayville.
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Jonathan Cummings

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2004, 10:09:25 AM »
Actually, Troon is a golf factory hosting more outside rounds than any other Scottish great (excluding St Andrews).  When visiting Troon here are some other info.  Your greens fees include a buffet lunch - don't miss it as the clubhouse is filled with history.  The pro shop is one of the best stocked pro shops in the British Isles.  The Old Course at Troon is as strong as 40 acres of onions and the Portland Course is a pleasant but forgettable rest.

Be forewarned about Troon (I've been badly bitten by this before).  The Old Course does not allow women (other than members).  Women can play the Portland though.

JC

Mike Benham

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2004, 10:59:19 AM »
Mike;  
Great photos, looks like you had a nice day at Royal Troon. Was that you closest to the hole on the Postage Stamp?

Yes, with a knock down 8-iron into the breeze. At Tel El, oops #7, my caddie wanted me to hit an iron off the tee so that I could hit a down-wind knock down shot as practice for Postage, oops, #8.

Yes, Troon is a golf factory and the day we were there was the first day of Guest Season which coincides with the first day of caddie season (the members don't use many caddies).  The buffet lunch is "included" with the 36-hole package.

The green shape of #7 is not quite an hour glass but a back right hole placement would be a toughie ...

As for the firmness of the course, even though it had rained a bit the previous week, it was still on the quick side.  The turf is just different over there and even though it doesn't feel firm, kind of spongy in fact, the ball does bounce along.

The Open will be decided by the wind, bounces, wind and bounces ...
"... and I liked the guy ..."

THuckaby2

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2004, 11:09:10 AM »
Mike - did you go ahead and do the Portland, or eschew (love that word) that round for golf somewhere else?

I found the Portland to be pretty darn fun and a good warm up for the Old.  The day as a whole was very fun also, with the buffet lunch... man they had Belhaven's Best on tap there and I nearly died from over-joy.   ;D  It is a visitor golf factory though - good call by JC.  They must be fond of keeping members' dues low... they make a ton of money doing this.. the caddies told me they are ashamed what we have to pay!  But what the hell, one does only live once and one cannot put a price tag on a good time.

In any case, funny how the Old course tends to start on the 7th tee (sorry about the name/number thing, btw - I just got tired of typing the long name for #7!)... from that point on, it is really tough.  It's gonna be interesting in the Open to look at it that way - players better be under par after 6 or they are in big trouble.

TH

Mike Benham

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2004, 11:26:55 AM »
We played The Old Course (with caddies) in the morning and Portland in the afternoon (without).  Unfortunately, I had not understood the virtues of Belhaven Best so I settled for a Tennants at lunch (interesting sidebar but when we played Gullane, a maintenance worker, a typical Scot if we ever saw one told us that "Tennants is no good, it's filled with chemicals").

I believe the downwind holes on the front will pose problems as it will be more difficult for them to control the distances.  They may even need to be more precise with where the want to land the ball to get it close to the hole.  The first 2 holes, playing downwind are literally 6-irons off the tee ...

"... and I liked the guy ..."

THuckaby2

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2004, 12:02:34 PM »
Mike - you did it the reverse of me.  I don't think the order matters much though... in fact I may like your way better... do a serious round at the Old in the am, drink several pints of BB at lunch, skip happily tra la through the Portland.   ;D

Re how it's gonna play, good call re downwind being tough to judge.  But even considering that, well... down wind is gonna be easier than the side winds they'll get on 7 and 8 and the tee shot on 9, then the rest of the course is into the wind to some DAMN tight spots from 10 forward, save #12 (which will be a bitch in its own right).

I really expect to see a lot of scores in the 34-40 range... but heck, that's how all Opens have worked out at Troon.

TH

Brian Noser

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2004, 01:52:23 PM »
I still have not seen mention of any scores posted? Huck and I had a discussion on this. Care to post any.

The pics are great someday I will to make it over there.

THuckaby2

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2004, 01:56:15 PM »
Brian - I'm sure Mike is too modest to post the score he made on The Old Course.  Let's just say I was wrong... but not in the direction of making you right.  His score was two LESS than my estimate.

The man can play, and that course is short from the tees they put visitors on.

 ;D

Mike Benham

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2004, 02:07:41 PM »
I still have not seen mention of any scores posted? Huck and I had a discussion on this. Care to post any.

The pics are great someday I will to make it over there.

Brian -

I did shoot an even par 72 on The Old Course.  As Tom noted, the guest tees (or whatever they are called) are pretty short with many of the par-4 in the middle of round driveable (of which I didn't).

We had all types of weather for the day, starting in short sleeves in balmy weather, with rain 6-holes later and misting to the end.  At the shorter distance you can aim way left, avoid most of the fairway bunkers and still have a chance to score.  With the huge greens (really really big), distance and ball control on your approach shots is important or you will face numerous long putts ... ask me how I know ...

One other note, St. Andrews is really a college town, go when school is in session, the scenary is so much nicer in the pubs ... ;)

Mike
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Brian Noser

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2004, 02:20:06 PM »
Good score I predicted much higher.(sorry Mike I should have known better after my whooping)

Do they make you play the visitor tees regardless of handicap?

I will keep the other suggestions in mind when planning. Better scenery good choice. :)

Joe_Hatley

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2004, 02:25:08 PM »
Troon Old (not to be confused with THE Old Course) is one of the more schizophrenic courses I've ever played, in the sense that the front 9 is relatively easy because it typically plays downwind and features some shortish par 4s.  The back 9, on the other hand, is an absolute bear.  The par 4s are brutally long to begin with and they play into the prevailing wind.  When I played it a few years ago, I went out in 37 (with a three-jack on #9) and came in with a generously scored 46.

We were so exhausted from fighting the wind on the back that we skipped our planned afternoon round at Gullane, and just enjoyed the buffet lunch and several Belhavens.

Fortunately, we're going to be in Scotland this summer for a trip, and plan to go to the first round of the Open.  I can't decide how I want to watch, though.  Would you just plop down beside the Postage Stamp and watch highly-skilled professionals make triples on a par-3, or would you rather follow a group around to see how they tackle the whole course?

THuckaby2

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2004, 02:30:13 PM »
Brian - they only put out two sets of markers, white (medal - back) and red (ladies).  And most days outside of competitions and R&A outings, when they know it will be primarily visitors - these blocks are set even shorter than the posted yardage, which is 6609 from the white.  One simply doesn't tell the Links Trust folks to put out special back tees... or at least this one doesn't.  You play what they damn well put out for you.. and teeing off behind would not only be sacrilege at that sacred place, but might get you booted.

So, 6609, with blocks shortening it on each hole... then if you get front pins, like Mike apparently did, well... that means a big distance loss also on those huge greens - it can be 30 yards from front to middle, if not more!

So when I was there last summer, I'd guess I played a course that was 6300 max.  I think it was even shorter for Mike.  Then factor in that the ball rolls forever on those firm hallowed grounds, and well...

It works out as a very short golf course.

Seeing your prodigious length, absent strong wind, I'd say you could do this:

 - reach #9 with a 2iron at most - card says 307 but you generally play it at about 275, and the ball rolls forever;

- reach #10 with a 3wood at most - card says 318, tends to play about 290, remember that roll issue;

- reach #12 having maybe to hit driver - 316 playing 300 or so, same roll issue.

 - Reach both par 5's easily with irons  

 - reach #18 with 3wood, maybe driver.

That's a lot of eagle chances/2-putt birdies.

OF COURSE, there is danger on each one of these and you could make double or worse on every single one if you find gorse or a bad spot in a bunker.  But avoid that and a score can be achieved there.

It is not a difficult golf course.  It is most definitely a GREAT golf course, perhaps the greatest on the planet.

TH




Mike Benham

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2004, 02:46:48 PM »

That's a lot of eagle chances/2-putt birdies.


Or 3-putt pars ...

Hitting the tee shot where you want to is the key ... you aren't going to get that many kick in birdies on your approach shot as the greens have a funny way of preventing (something to do with the "Electric Brae" I think ...) ...

I hit driver on every par-4 and 5 just because I felt I could (and should ... a little Shivas in me I think ...).  I did leave myself some awkward distances from tight lies but what the heck ...
"... and I liked the guy ..."

THuckaby2

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2004, 03:10:41 PM »
Oh yes, 3-putt pars.  But we don't like to talk about those.   ;)

You're right re trying to get irons close, also - it's darn tough on those enormous greens.  You're also bound to have long putts as well, so the flat stick must be on.

That being said, there are very few holes where one ought NOT to hit driver - you just stay left!  Really, #12 was the only one I even gave it a second's thought... the idea there is to pick the best club to miss the bunkers, however that can be done.  For most people that means leaving the driver in the bag.

From the tees we're talking, driver hit correctly on 9, 10 and 18 means a putt for one's second, be it on the green or short of it - putter is likely still the best play.

In any case, the course is surely no cakewalk - bad scores can also be achieved, typically by finding too many bunkers and/or having to go sideways and backwards too many times, or by finding the gorse too often.  I certainly had that happen.  But I also had a score close to yours, when those things didn't happen... You know my length off the tee also - shorter than you and WAY shorter than Brian, and hell, I did just what I said above on 9, 10 and 18 in the good round.

Tough holes are 2, 4, 11, 13, 17 - make bogey on all of those, birdie on a few or all of 5, 9, 10, 18 - and voila, a round close to par is yours.

Of course doing it is another matter.

So anyway, great round, Mike!  I'm just trying to justify the reasons I predicted a low score for you at The Old Course.

By the same token, I'm betting you REALLY had to play to break 80 at Carnoustie... true?

TH

Mike Benham

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2004, 04:48:43 PM »

By the same token, I'm betting you REALLY had to play to break 80 at Carnoustie... true?


Umm, yeah, Carnoustie was not 6,200 yards.  They did allow us to play it back, which I believe was 6,800 yards ...

I shot 80 finishing bogey, double and bogey on 16, 17 and 18.  The par-3 16th into the wind is just plain long and hard and making 4 is almost like par ...

17 is just a stupid hole with Barry Burn snaking its way through the hole ...

"... and I liked the guy ..."

THuckaby2

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2004, 04:51:00 PM »
Mike, that is damn good playing, especially from those tees.  Carnoustie is a just plain tough golf course.

TH

THuckaby2

Re:Royal Troon - Photos
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2004, 05:06:00 PM »
Mike:  hmmmm... I just remembered, you can't get me on anywhere other than the obvious, and I can likely make that one happen without you anyway.

So change my answers here.  You suck and just got totally lucky at both of these.

TH
beating potential detractors to the punch, knowing that the best defense is a good offense.

 ;D ;D ;D

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