How many 50 year old supts do you know??

[Mike_Young]

I was at a job site the other day and friend that has been a supt for over 20 years was informing me that another of his colleagues had bbeen replaced.  He said "how many 50 year old supts do you know"  and I got to thinking.   Not many.  This person is in charge of 5 golf courses with a supt at each and it was his opinion that so many schools has opened up to turf degrees and so many had gotten in the business that it was easy and efficient to replace guys that had been there for awhile with younger guys using more modern technigues.
I think he may be on to something.
The business is changing.

[TEPaul]

Mike:

I think the super at Kittanset, Lenny Blodgett has been in that position now for 41 years. The one who served the longest I'm aware of was Eb Steineger at PVGC, for 50 years.

[Mike_Young]

TE,
I knew mr Steineger...he was something.....
But it seems now that the older guys are a rare find....
qualified people get into the field and are either into sales or out of it before turning 50...
it used to be a lifelong position but the demands at a modern course are different...
seems to be a very stressful job where one is vulnerable to weather and whhims 7 days a week...
lots are saying to hell with it....

[TEPaul]

Mike;

In my opinion the "firing line" most supers today are on is akin to the job of a professional basketball coach, only worse!  

[Mike_Young]

TE,
I don't know if they have it that bad...Jim Harrick is a good friend of mine and he has caught more hell than any supt over the last year...press is ruthless with coaches

[Tom_Doak]

Mike,

You are right.  Two years ago when I was making the rounds of the clubs we consult at, all of the older superintendents said the same thing:  they were fed up with the business, and the younger guys who thought they could keep greens rolling at 11 for 365 days a year were welcome to try.

The longest term superintendent I knew of was Benny Zukowsky at The Links Club on Long Island, where he served for 57 years.  I was also fortunate to meet Mr. Steineger at Pine Valley who was a great man.

[Donnie Beck]

Let's not forget about Hook out at Maidstone.

[TEPaul]

Hook has been there something like 30-35 years, right Donnie?

Actually, I should confess--there was this rumor floating around LI last summer or so that Hook was about to retire, so I called up the Golf Chairman and said to him;

"I hear Hook is thinking of retiring",

and, the Golf Chairman said to me;

"He is? He didn't tell me that!"

So I said;

"Whoops, did I say that?"

[cary lichtenstein]

I think alot of superintendent die young from the combination of heavy smoking and all the pestidsides. In Chicago, we had a super who came from a family of supers and all but one died young. I would be interested to see if there are any stat on this.

[Tom_Doak]

Cary:

Be careful how you say that, or you'll be quoted in my next zoning meeting.

Smoking is a well-known cause of premature death.  Pesticides aren't.

[TEPaul]

"Be careful how you say that, or you'll be quoted in my next zoning meeting."

TomD;

If someone does that at a zoning meeting just mention you're only interested in building a "pure" golf course and cite them Lennie Blodgett (Kittansett), Eb Steineger (PVGC), Hook Williams (Maidstone) and Benny Zukowsky (The Links) four guys from "pure" courses who were on the job for a total of 183 years!  

[Marc Haring]

Reckon pesticides are a pretty good cause of premature death if you happen to be a weed, bug or fungi.

Anyway greenkeeping is one of the very few vocations that I can think of, where you are employed as a professional expert but are then directed by uneducated amateurs. That’s stressful.  

[Mike_Young]

Cary,
My father-in-law was a supt at Gulfstream, Indian Creek and Everglades in Florida until he died at 63 years.  It was cancer and I do know that studies were being done regarding pesticides and cancer in supts at that time.  However, these guys had been mixing chemical, DDT etc with no gloves or mask for years.
Tom,
Yep E Steineger was a dude...good friend of my fsather-in-law..
Do you recall the "chemical dump" or something that was involving Pine Valley a few years ago?

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Ours at Oakbourne CC is over 50 and a survivor. Of course the course pays a price for that.

[TEPaul]

For longevity as super we should certainly not forget Joe Valentine of Merion, on that job for 52 years to be followed by his son Richie for perhaps 25 or more years a total of 77 or more continuous years of superintendency from the Valentines.

I don't know that much about superintendency or agronomy but Richie Valentine is a blast to talk to---a non-stop talker and funny as hell. In those days they apparently didn't overthink things they just went out and fixed and did. I think Richie told me a year or two ago if you have a problem just aeriate and topdress, simple as that.

There's another great story about Richie and Merion that some of these purists on architecture on here might get a chuckle out of or perhaps even freak out over since most of our purists think if an old course was ever touched architecturally it's nigh on to heresy.

Mr Muckymuck was having a drink on the patio at Merion one evening and a car came down Club House road around #14 green and Mr. Muckymuck got hit square in the eyes by its headlights. Well, obviously this wasn't acceptable so he got in touch with Richie and told him to do something about it so the next day there was a fair sized mound on the left of #14 up near the green!  

[GeoffreyC]

The Alonzi brothers probably qualify.  One at Fenway and the other at Westchester CC. Both do superior jobs keeping those courses in great shape.  Bob was in fact nominated for Superintendent of the year by Golfweek's Superintnedent News this past year.

[Jeff_Brauer]

The ones I know look about 60, testifying to the stress of the job over the long term.....

I agree with Mike and Tom about the pesticides.  There was a GCSAA study, and while many supers had cancer, there was no link established to the pesticides.  

I also agree that the trend should improve as the toxicity of pesticides is reduced.  The following chart, which is for fungicides, gives an example of why certain concerns are overblown.  I forget where I copied this from now, but the point is valid......

RELATIVE TOXICITY OF GOLF COURSE FUNGICIDES

Here is an excerpt of LD50's of commonly used fungicides from Vargas' "Management of Turfgrass Diseases".

Remember that the lower the LD50, the more dangerous it is to rats who ate the human equivalent of probably 10 pounds of these per day.  

Caffeine 250 mg/kg (MOST DANGEROUS)
Thiram 780
Aspirin 780
Triademefon 1900
PCNB 2000
Terrazole 2000
Table salt 3320
Chlorothalonil (becoming restricted, totally ridiculous) 3800
Ethyl alcohol  3800
Fosetyl-Al  4600
Iprodione  5000
Anilazine  5000
Vinclozolin  5000
Thiophanate methyl  5800
Mancozeb 8000
Propamocarb  8000
Benomyl  10000
Fenarimol  1000
Chloroneb 11000  Least dangerous

So be sure you wear a hood, gloves and respirator when you have your next cup of coffee, your next aspirin, salt and pepper, or cocktail.

[GeoffreyC]

Jeff

Quoting LD50's is all fine and good however that is simply a measure of somewhat immediate toxicity. Those doses have no relevance to potential mutation inducing properties of the chemicals and it is this quality that determines carcinogenesis. I would stay as far away from those pesticides as possible and take great care in handling them when required.

That said, I still wipe my golf ball on my clothes by habit and way too often.

[Norbert P]

  We would all do well to read Dave Wilber's thread, "Ballyneal Agronomy" for his insights into the use and overuse of ferts and other chemicals.

  http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=13069

"Quality turfgrass demands only what it needs and when it receives too much of a good thing, it won’t toughen to do well in the extremes. ...
  ...  The turf sward should be the part that you interact with only to support you working the ball through the challenge of your round. It shouldn’t be your constant enemy or your lingering distraction."  Dave Wilber

  Those are important statements.

  Where do "Over 50 Supers" go?  What is the general progression of promotion or displacement?

 

[Anthony_Nysse]

Ken Lapp @ Cog Hill
Oscer Miles @ The Merit Club
Doug Petersan @ Austin Golf Club

[peter_p]

Rich Scholes is just turning that age, and is now at the Dragon course west of Reno. At Tualatin he had the temerity to say no to the club president, a 25+ handicapper. Landed at Rancho Murietta (Raley Gold Rush), a much better job.
 

[SL_Solow]

Recently, Paul Voykin of Briarwood CC in Deerfield Illinois was selected "Superintendent of the Year" by Superintendents News.  Paul is 73 and has been the Greenkeeper at Briarwood for 43 years.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Norbert,

From my experience, most superintendents who get tired of the grind become fertilizer, chemical, or irrigation salesman, if they want to stay in a related business.  Probably some go for a total career change. I know a few who have gone into construction, but that hardly gives them shorter hour.....