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Dan_Lucas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ballyneal Agronomy
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2004, 11:05:34 AM »
Dave,

Congratulations on finding a home. I couldn't agree more with your philosophies and envy your traveling education. Best of luck with your grow-in. If you are ever in our area I would love to spend some time talking real turf with you.

Dan Lucas

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ballyneal Agronomy
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2004, 11:26:18 AM »
In case anyone wanted to see a pic of the Ballyneal site,
here's the future 8th hole.  You can also see where the "Neal"
part of the name came from and when construction is
supposed to start:


Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ballyneal Agronomy
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2004, 11:41:35 AM »
Reminds me a little of Gleneagles...

I am envious to the point jealousy...

Brian
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Steve_Roths

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ballyneal Agronomy
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2004, 12:53:33 PM »
Has anyone heard what the price tag is to join this amazing place.  Is this more of the Sand Hills price range ($25k) or more of the Sutton Bay range ($75k)?

ForkaB

Re:Ballyneal Agronomy
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2004, 01:17:07 PM »
Dave Wilber et. al.

Having read several reports on turfgrass conditions of living UK golf courses, from Jim Arthur and various other people, it seems that these little herbaceous critters are randy bastards who have no sense of place.  My question:

Regardless of how well you do your homework and initial site preparation and construction, how likely is it that the mix of grasses will stay put where you want them?   Or, do you expect them to migrate (and perhaps be contaminated by other brethren) and just plan for that eventuality?  Or, has the science of agronomy advanced such that you can say something like--"These greens are 70% bent and 30% fescue and will (and should) remain roughly so for the rest of their natural lives."  Or, do you want to even try to make such a statement?  Is consistency of mix important over time, or do you just let nature do its thang?

Yes, that is more than one question.......

Thanks in advance for any answers from the people who know these things.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ballyneal Agronomy
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2004, 06:24:33 PM »
Dave, I find a few statements a little contradictory and even a bit condescending...

Quote
But seriously, you have no idea what a high or a low fertility program really is so saying some of what you are saying is a lot of stretching.

Quote
I've been good at some of the aspects of the business of consulting and some of them are beyond me, but the learning part is something I've embraced. I've seen some common threads in a bunch of different climates with a bunch of different grasses and most of it really isn't rocket science.

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I'm committed to making Ballyneal a place of learning and doing. So that the emerging Traditional Turfhead has a developing support system and isn't out there swinging at high pitches all alone.

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People's careers and lifestyles are at stake and we aren't talking about "amatuer/hobbiest" types. I'm a huge fan of Sand Hills. I love the place. Dick Youngscap's efforts have helped us all learn much. So have the efforts of all the guys who worked their asses off growing grass there.

Dave, maybe it is just me, but I find that if you are ever going to sell the ideal to potential members of having turf of a linksland nature where it will be irregular in appearance, often brown and occasionally greens up in high rain and cool spells, then you will need to COMMUNICATE what value those characteristics have to people that aren't agronomy-turf science degreed people.  

Believe it or not, I don't think I'm any smarter than most of the people that post here, but I do think most of them are perfectly capable of learning some of the basics about turf, if that is where their interests lie.  And understanding high fertility or low input programs in terms of #sN per acre per year, or N-P-K balance designed for various species and cultivars in specific climates and soils isn't as you say, "rocket science".  

My questions asked earlier weren't at all directed or intended to diminish anyone's work because there were some setbacks in the turf and winter kills and dessication in the Sand Hills.  The whole point is that such weather/climate can't be prevented and no one is going to loose their job in discussing the harsh climate and wide variety of temperatures that would effect the promulgation of high content fescue cultivar mixtures to emulate linksland playing surfaces.  You can't have learning without that communication.  I was just trying to enter the discussion and pass along what I have understood from some fellows with specific regional experience.  And please don't feel that this stuff is so highly advanced and sensitive that a non-degreed fellow can't even be exposed to such awesome turf science based discussion.  I'm really sure such knowledge it isn't going to hurt any of us here on GCA.  Not even superintendents.  
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Dave_Wilber

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ballyneal Agronomy
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2004, 10:22:39 PM »
Dan Lucas: Thanks for the kind words. I'm sad I still haven't seen your place. We certainly are in high hopes of hosting a bunch of Traditional Turfheads at Ballyneal.

Rich: I'll be happy with the blend as it matures to what nature allows. Of course that ship can be steered a bit. In the case of Ballyneal, irrigation will have some determining facts in the case :)

Steve: Initial membership price begins in the $50K range.

Brian: Its a bit hard to appreciate the scale of the 20-60 foot dunes in that pic. Pretty neat.

Dick: Thanks for opinion. For the moment, we'll be keeping our grassing plans close to the chest and that's that. It won't be a big secret for long. Our grassing choices are only a part of the agronomic planning that I feel are going to be necessary for success. I'm not too worried about my ability to communicate. Talk is cheap, anyway. Delivering the goods is the focus. I certainly don't mean for my confidence and focus to be patronizing. :)
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Dave Wilber
Wilber Consulting--Coaching, Writing Broadcasting, Agronomy
davewilber@yahoo.com
twitter: @turfgrasszealot
instagram @turfgrasszeal
"No one goes to play the great courses we talk about here because they do a nice bowl of soup. Soup helps, but you can’t putt in it." --Wilber

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ballyneal Agronomy
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2004, 11:04:02 PM »
Dave, despite a bit of a challenge to your comments, I am rooting for you and the success of the project.  Best of luck!
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ballyneal Agronomy
« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2004, 02:48:29 AM »
 Has anybody, anywhere on this planet, ever planted machair grass on a golf course.  

  Does anybody have tactile knowledge of it?  
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ballyneal Agronomy
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2004, 11:09:36 AM »
Has anyone heard what the price tag is to join this amazing place.  Is this more of the Sand Hills price range ($25k) or more of the Sutton Bay range ($75k)?

Steve, the answer is right in the middle.  My understanding is that an initial number of memberships (20) will be $50,000.  The second group of memberships (20) will be $60,000.  At that point, the club will evaluate fees for the remaining membership spots.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Dave_Wilber

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ballyneal Agronomy
« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2004, 12:05:59 PM »
  Slag,

 My understanding of Machair is that it is a completely vegetation covered coastal plain, marram and lyme grass being the most common varities found.

Another reference I have says that Machair is a Gaelic word which describes pasture on soil which is predominantly shell sand.




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Dave Wilber
Wilber Consulting--Coaching, Writing Broadcasting, Agronomy
davewilber@yahoo.com
twitter: @turfgrasszealot
instagram @turfgrasszeal
"No one goes to play the great courses we talk about here because they do a nice bowl of soup. Soup helps, but you can’t putt in it." --Wilber

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal Agronomy
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2013, 12:49:33 PM »
Bumping to augment the "Ballyneal Gets Bent" thread.  With the opening of the Dismal River Club's Red course, and the grassing and irrigation decisions made there, these two courses make for an interesting discussion of before and after techniques for optimal playing conditions in the sand dunes a few hundred miles east of the Rocky Mountains.

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