Old Head - Ireland

[THuckaby2]

I realize this has been discussed before in here, but I continue to be intrigued by Old Head GC in Ireland... It has to be among the most spectacular courses on the planet in terms of views, but the architecture is typically reviewed in here as being pretty blah.  Then there's the matter of it pricing itself out of the reach of most locals (and most visitors, to that matter) which leaves a distaste...

So I'm never sure how to look at this course.  I'm not sure if I want to play it again, next time I go back... I'm never sure how to advise people who ask if it's worth playing.

So what say the cognoscenti here?  Who's played it, what did you think?  Would you go back?  Is it worth the price they charge?  Would you want to be a member there, if you could swing the cost?

As I say I'm just quite curious about the place.  My cousin who lives in Northern Ireland treats it like Augusta... that is, he hears it's great, sees pictures, but can't imagine ever playing it.  Having played it once myself I really don't know what to say about it to him... It is pretty darn spectacular...

Thanks.

TH

[cary lichtenstein]

Excellent Question

We all came away with the same opinion as yours after playing it once, however, if you juggle the tees and use a combo set, and you have different weather conditions each time, after about 10 rounds, we all might come away with a different opinion

Cary

[Matt_Ward]

Huck:

I played Old Head last year and during my trip there played all the top courses one can mention for Ireland and Northern Ireland.

There's a tendency to dismiss Old Head with the Texas phrase "all hat and no cattle" but I think that's a bit of a stretch.

Clearly, the views at Old Head are ALL WORLD!!! It even makes Pebble Beach look a bit depressing and that's no blarney!

The thing about Old Head is that I believe you have three different stories going on with the architectue. Six holes are fairly pedestrian -- six are very good -- and then you have six that are simply as stunning and dynamic as any you can play in Ireland IMHO. I mean how grand is the par-5 12th hole -- to name just one. Ditto the closing stretch with the 17th and 18th holes -- especially if you play the tips on #18 under the Lighthouse. Wow indeed!!!

No doubt -- the high cost to play -- I believe it's just above $300 -- can cause a number of people to frown on the layout from the get go because of that element.

Old Head is not going to push aside the very elite layouts in Ireland and Northern Ireland (e.g. County Down, Portrush, Ballybunion, Portmarnock) but it's a good bit better than the initial criticisms that came from certain quarters -- here on GCA and elsewhere IMHO. If anyone is venturing across the pond I would not hesitate to recommend playing there provided one knew what to expect.

[Bill Gayne]

Tom,

To answer the various questions,

1. Yes, I have played Old Head and found it completely enjoyable and spectacular. The scenery is incredible. The course from a design and play perspective is simple. There is no way any golf course could compete with the setting. I think they were better off building a course and facilities that were understated and complimented the incredible site rather than trying to out do it. From what I understand the construction of the golf course itself was difficult and dangerous in that the head land was nothing more than rock and an incredible amount of dirt had to be brought in. I also heard that some heavy construction equipment went over the cliffs.

2. I would go back and pay the $250 only if I could go with people who had never been there before. The expressions of amazement people have upon seeing Old Head for the first time makes it all worthwhile. I do understand that these expressions can turn to disappointment with the the gate. The natural beauty though is undeniable.

3. I would not want to be a member.

I really enjoyed Kinsale the town.

[Chris_Clouser]

Matt,

I haven't played Pebble Beach, but your summation of the architecture into 3 distinct groups at Old Head almost sounds like the description that I hear about Pebble from time to time.  6 great holes, 6 good holes and 6 pedestrian holes.  

If that is the case why does Old Head get panned on here, but Pebble gets praised lavishly.  Is it purely American prejudice or is the above summation not accurate about Pebble.  

Chris

[Matt_Ward]

Chris:

As a media guy part of the problem stems from the people connected to Old Head who went w-a-y overboard with all the pre-opening buzz about the facility. I think they received a backlash from golf traditionalists who viewed their chest puffing as a bit much when you have a country with the likes of such established great layouts that I have already mentioned.

Even with that said -- Old Head is indeed a stellar looking place and I concur with Bill that it's easy for people to simply say it cuts a beautiful picture but where's the beef?

In my mind -- the course has its clear moments where you need to stand up and deliver on a big time basis. I can't imagine many sites on the globe being as exposed to the elements as Old Head is. There is NO PLACE to hide when the wind picks up and for that reason deserves to be acknowledged at the minimum.

Fortunately, a number of the pedestrian holes comes early in the round -- the pedestrian 1st hole, being one example. However, Old Head steps up in a big time way in a number of occasions -- like I said the 12th and 17th holes are two of the finest par-5's I have ever played -- they are gorgeous to look at and killers to play unless you properly execute.

Old Head, in my mind, is easily at the level of Bandon Dunes. It is not at the same level as Pebble Beach because PB has some of the toughest greens to putt and approach when the conditions stiffen.

Old Head took it on the chin from the outset because it was touted too early and too soon. Let the course speak for itself and it will garner it's appropriate standing. Like I said before --if someone is going to Ireland you need to play it at least once.

P.S. I completely concur with Bill on Kinsale -- a great town and a wonderful place to leave the nongolfing spouse while you venture to Old Head for a round.

[TEPaul]

To make the architectural analysis even simpler than 6, 6 and 6 probably somewhat like Pebble Beach the holes at Old Head that are the best, and the best architecture, in my opinion, and are certainly the most memorable to most golfers are all those holes that either touch or are on the periphery of the property. Most all those holes in the interior of the course aren't up to the rest. With the exception of the 13th---I thought that was a very fine long par 3 and well done architectural for the landform it's on.

[THuckaby2]

THis is all great stuff, gents - many thanks.  Keep it coming!

I concur for sure re Kinsale, btw - what a great town!

TH

[Dub_ONeill]

I played Old Head a couple of years ago with a group that goes to Ireland or Scotland every other year.  We found it an unforgettable experience that we discuss almost everytime we are together playing.  We played 36 holes there.  The morning round was bright sunshine a light winds and was simply breathtaking.  I agree that the tee box at number 12 might be the most remarkable anywhere.  The afternoon round was played in a cold monsoon with winds gusting over 30 miles an hour.  We were one of only two groups that remained on the course, and I only finished about half of the last nine holes.  I would definitely advise anyone going to Ireland to play there, although if your only experience turns out to be in the rain and the fog my guess is they would leave thinking they had wasted their money.  I have no particular desire to go back again - you can visit the cliffs after a round at Lahinch for views.  I would not be a member.  i would, however, gladly return to The Cork Golf Club anytime I was in the area and would suggest that anyone going to Kinsale stop off and do the same.

[TEPaul]

"I agree that the tee box at number 12 might be the most remarkable anywhere."

Dub:

Not so, in my opinion. It's not only the most remarkable tee box on the back nine at Old Head! #18 back tee is, in my opinion. I marched straight out there wihout looking, hit my tee shot and made the mistake of looking down walking back at which point I got clobbered by an instant attack of vertigo and had to creep along the inside with my eyes closed like an ant creeping sideways!

[Matt_Ward]

TEPaul:

There are indeed some unique tees at Old Head.

The 18th is really cool as the back tee lies directly underneath the impressive light house.

[ed_getka]

FWIW, from what is being said about the course, I would not go to play it. At the price mentioned $250-300, I doubt the course is demonstrably better than many of the other fine courses in Ireland. For me there is a value consideration, and Old Head as described does not fit with my thinking of value.
   I enjoyed Pebble Beach when I played it with my brother, but NO WAY is it worth the green fee then or now. However, I feel it is a course one should see in one's lifetime. I will see it once more when my youngest son is old enough to appreciate it. Of course, by then Pebble will be $1,000.
   While on the subject, as much as I would like to see what Tom Doak did at Cape Kidnappers, I don't ever see myself plunking down $250, unless all you guys tell me it has 18 super holes of golf.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I played Old Head with one of the ass'ts who could point out some of the course's subtelties that one might miss because of the spectacular views.  The golf can't compete with the views.  How could it?  The wind is always a factor and the holes are protected by the wind as much as by the hazards.  It is an excellent golf course in a spectacular setting and a round of golf there is like no other.  It is completely unique and should be experienced ar least once.

[Doug Siebert]

Ed,

Doesn't the difficulty and expense of getting to where the course is figure in this somehow?  I don't know where you live, but even if you don't live in California most of us who live in the US will find ourselves there for business, visiting friends or just vacationing more than a few times in our lives, so there are plenty of opportunities to play Pebble.  However, since its "free" or nearly so to get there since we are already there for other reasons, spending $700 or whatever it is to stay in the Lodge for a night and play Pebble sounds pretty steep, so I've never played it -- though perhaps more because I haven't been there with better golfers who could appreciate it.  No way would it be worth it for a 100+ shooter unless he's got too many dollars or not enough sense.

If I think about Old Head, I could see playing it next time I'm in Ireland on a golf trip because I'm already spending thousands on the trip anyway, what's another few hundred?

That'd be even more true with Cape Kidnappers if I was on a golf trip to AU/NZ, since its even more expensive to get there, though its apparently in a fairly remote location as well so it seems like it'd take Machrahanish-like desire to make it happen.  I doubt I'll ever play CK, not due to the price but simply because when I finally visit that part of the world I'm not going to be visiting for the golf, and I don't bring my clubs when I'm not on a golf trip.  Too much hassle for just getting in one or two rounds!

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Tom, I will take another approach. Old Head is somewhat like a Fazio course is here, architecturally good not great and asthetically pleasing. It is architecturally good but not the best, but the over all golf experience to most is very good. When you add the lovely Kinsale to the equation, most travelers will love that part of the trip. I would not think the green fee will or should scare a way a first time visiator making the grand tour of Ireland. The cost to play will find its market point and level out much to the bad for many people, local and visitaor alike who would love the experience of playing in the UK and Ireland.

[ed_getka]

Doug,
   Good God man, where are your priorities? Even one round is worth lugging clubs for. Your arguement doesn't work for the way I travel and golf. I tend to golf for 3-4 days at a time, and make multiple trips through the year. I only play 2 or 3 rounds a year within 300 miles of my house. I just generally practice until my next GCA road trip comes up. I would gladly spend $1000 to spend a day golfing at Sand Hills, because I love every aspect of the course, and everything else at that club. I am NOT going to spend $250 to golf at Old Head when I hear it has some mediocre holes. I really don't care too much about aesthetics in the courses I enjoy. I doubt I will ever golf at a course I consider more beautiful than my beloved Sierra's and Yosemite.

 It is unlikely that I will ever pay more than $75 to golf at a public access facility in the Bay Area where I live. Once any course gets above that level I figure the chance of me liking it as much as Pasatiempo is extremely remote, so I would rather pay $125 to golf at Pasa. That is the public access golf standard for me in my part of the country.

  I am not driven to see every course in the world. I just want to see the ones my friends on this site tell me I just have to see.

[THuckaby2]

Great stuff one and all - many thanks.  Seems there remains not much consensus on this golf course... and thus to me it remains intriguing.

To Ed Getka:  if I may be so bold, I consider myself a friend of yours from this web site.  You do just have to see Old Head.  To put it plain and simple, it is the most "spectacular" golf course on the planet and does need to be seen at least once.

Does this change your opinion at all?