CONSENSUS RANKINGS--THE TOP 50 IN THE US

[Peter Pratt]

While I know that there is much harping about rankings at gca, I thought it would be interesting to calculate the consensus top 50 courses in the U.S. by combining the rankings from Golf Week, GD, and GM. Brad Klein's new book, with ranking points included, allowed me to come up with Golf Week's top 80 courses (50 classical and 30 modern). To arrive at this consensus top 50, I gave points that corresponded to a course's ranking at each of the 3 golf magazines. So Pine Valley has a score of 3 (1 for each of the three magazines) and Peachtree a score of 160 (59 in GW, 51 in GD, and 50 in GM). The lowest 50 scores in order are shown below. Please note: A course had to be ranked in all 3 mags to be eligible.

My question: Is this consensus list better or worse than the other lists?

1.  Pine Valley
2.  Cypress Point
3. Augusta National
4.  Shinnecock Hills
5.  Pebble Beach
6.  Oakmont
7.  Merion
8.  Pinehurst #2
9.  Winged Foot (W)
10. NGLA

11.  Seminole
12.  Sand Hills (ranked #3 by GW)
13.  Crystal Downs
14.  Oakland Hills
15.  Prairie Dunes
16.  SFGC
17.  Pacific Dunes (ranked #4 by GW)
18.  Fishers Island
19.  Muirfield Village
20.  The Country Club

21.  Olympic
22.  Chicago
23.  Southern Hills
24.  Bethpage (Black)
25.  Garden City
26.  Riviera
27.  Oak Hill
28.  LACC
29.  Medinah #3
30.  Quaker Ridge

31.  Inverness
32.  The Golf Club
33.  Baltusrol (Lower)
34.  Whistling Straits
35.  Bandon Dunes
36.  Shadow Creek
37.  Winged Foot (E)
38.  Spyglass Hill
39. Wade Hampton
40.  Somerset Hills

41.  TPC at Sawgrass (stadium)
42.  Camargo
43.  Maidstone
44.  The Honors Course
45.  Wannamoisett
46.  The Ocean Course
47.  Cascades
48.  Shoreacres
49.  Plainfield
50.  Peachtree

If you'd like, let's play the game that Tom Doak suggested a few months ago. Which courses would you remove from this list and whcih ones would you add--one-for-one swaps only, so if you add 3, you have to pick the 3 you'd remove.

I'll start--Kingsley Club and Pasatiempo in, Cascades and Spyglass Hill out.

[THuckaby2]

Interesting list - looks no better or worse than any of the others to me.

But Peter, do tell - does Brad Klein's new book really combine the two GW lists?  I'm curious because it's something those wusses have been traditionally so loath to do, I am shocked that Brad had the nads to publish it.  We can't possibly compare courses built before and after 1960, can we?  

THAT is the list I want to see - the GW combined list.  I might go buy Brad's book just for that.

 

[A_Clay_Man]

Looks like a fine list, with alot less arguable material.

Out- The Straits     In- Wild Horse

[Peter Pratt]

Tom, the numbers are in the book.  A few highly ranked in GW that didn't make it to both GD and GM lists--Pete Dye GC (#20), Kinloch (#29), Friar's Head (#33), Cuscowilla (#37), Dallas National (#43), Wolf Run (#45), Wild Horse (#46), and The Rim (#47).

[CHC1948]

TPC and The Golf Club-out

Yeamans and Myopia Hunt Club

Just a start, but looks like the list needs more tweaking

[THuckaby2]

Tom, the numbers are in the book.  A few highly ranked in GW that didn't make it to both GD and GM lists--Pete Dye GC (#20), Kinloch (#29), Friar's Head (#33), Cuscowilla (#37), Dallas National (#43), Wolf Run (#45), Wild Horse (#46), and The Rim (#47).

Peter:

My post was mainly yet another dig at the GW rating process, which really is a dig at the many friends I have who participate in such.  So all just good-natured crap-giving, which I'm sure will never end.  

But now on a serious note:  does Brad really give a combined list, or does he just publish the overall scores for each course?

If he does the latter, then it's really NOT a combined list, because the way GW does things, they are asked to give points based on how it would fall they way they currently do it.  That is, Pacific Dunes is given points based on how the raters feel it would rank on the MODERN list, not overall.  Pine Valley is given points based on how it would rank on the TRADITIONAL list, not overall.  So then each gets a score... but it's only in relation to its peers... so then using that as a means to make an overall list is incorrect, because the number it gets is not derived in that manner.

Does that make sense?

Not that it matters a lot... but it does skew your consensus a bit if Brad does it this way - the GW numbers are out of whack.

So do tell, does he give a combined list, or does he just publish the numbers the raters arrived at for each course?

TH

[Peter Pratt]

Tom, Brad does not give a combined list. The book is divided into classical and modern sections, with the rankings for each course included in the course profile. I wasn't aware that the rankers were asked to compare the courses to their chronological peers.

[JakaB]

Huck,

Why don't you take the time to shut up for a sec and buy a book...tell you what...order Brad's book and the BBGE will front you half the cost.

[THuckaby2]

Peter:

Yep, that's how it works.  That's why I call them wusses and berate them so.  They don't have the guts to compare Pacific Dunes and Sand Hills and Friar's Head to Pebble Beach and NGLA and Shinnecock, like real men do.

 

That was another dig, obviously.  All in good fun.

But again, very seriously, that is the way they do things.  So it's really neither correct, nor fair, to use those numbers for a combined list.  

I still might buy Brad's book, though... and your consensus list is still very interesting, as much as GW screws it up.

 

So OK, as for me, add Pasatiempo and Wild Horse and take out Whistling Straits and Cascades - I've played the former two and feel they belong, and I trust Adam and you that the latter two don't.

TH

[THuckaby2]

Huck,

Why don't you take the time to shut up for a sec and buy a book...tell you what...order Brad's book and the BBGE will front you half the cost.

Thanks, John, but I can afford the book and likely will buy it.  I just don't have it right now, and as you see, the GW methodology was necessary to clarify this consensus list.  I suppose it could have waited until I get the book, but where's the fun in that?  

 

[jim_lewis]

Wannamoisett and Bethapage Black swap places

[Brian_Gracely]

Great.....The Masters bashing is over and we're back to ANOTHER thread about ratings        

I can't wait to hear the new and fresh insight we'll find with this one.....

How about we discuss:

What does the course look like in Hell for all the raters that sold their soul to play a top course?

If a highly rated course catches on fire, should it be lauded like the city of Cleveland after the river burned, or glorified like Windsor Castle after the queen's annus horibilis speech?

Steroids and Raters....is there a problem?

Which is better course-owner ettiquette..Giving raters the dozen ProV1s before the round (and they potentially lose them during the round), or giving them after the round but potentially weighing down their travel bag at the airport?

If we eliminated the ratings issue of GW, GD, GM, would this increase or decrease the number of those annoying advertisement inserts that constantly fall out of the magazines?

Talk amongst yourself....
 

[David Wigler]

Great list Peter.  Thank you for the effort.

[Peter Pratt]

Brian, I confess I'm a ratings junkie. I learned a lot from the exercise proposed by Tom Doak with the GM list and wanted to try the same with this (sort of) consensus list. It is interesting to see which courses people add and drop from the top 50.

[Matt_Ward]

Peter:

I'll start with a few changes to your existing order.

Move Baltusrol Lower either "lower" or out completely. It is a fine course but not at the top 50 level. I would also put Plainfield a bit higher -- likely in the top 30-40 range.

I would drop Shoreacres and if I had to substitute an Illinois alternative I would go with Skokie instead.

I would also lower Augusta National to a borderline top ten in response to the "improvements" that were done to the golf course and I would certainly move Shinnecock to the tp of the pecking order -- even ahead of PV and CP. Oakmont would also be a top five layout in my book.

Since you mentioned changes I would take out Maidstone from the top 50 and replace it with The Kingsley Club.

On the Tom Fazio front I would take out Shadow Creek and Wade Hampton and replace them with Dallas National and Glen Wild (UT) respectively. Likely, my TF choices would be a bit lower than what you originally placed Shadow and Wade respectively.

I would also switch the positions of Medinah #3 and Wannamoisett. No comparison between these two courses and I'm being generous in saying that from an architectural perspective.

On other thing -- Bethpage Black is a top 20 layout long before Oakland Hills / South IMHO.

Final comment for now -- I would drop Peachtree and replace it with either Whisper Rock or Desert Forest in AZ for now. My preference would be WR.

[A.G._Crockett]

Cuscowilla in, Peachtree out.

[Gerry B]

good list - always subjective -in my opinion some position switching is in order Oakland Hills, Country Club and Baltusrol too high - Chicago, Bethpage, LACC, Shoreacres and Olympic too low.

A couple of missing from the list IMHO:

Baltimore Five Farms East
Friars Head -have not played it but based upon the photos and raves on this board -sounds like it should make the top 30 let alone the top 50

 

[Phil_the_Author]

Peter,

In your list, you have:
12.  Sand Hills (ranked #3 by GW)
&
17.  Pacific Dunes (ranked #4 by GW)

I was wondering why you singled out these two courses to show how they were ranked by GW. Are you stating here that you believe their rankings to be more accurate?

I am certain that you are trying to show a balanced and unbiased overall ranking and your approach in how to do it is basically sound, but I must question why you did this.

Also, Bethpage Black is still not appreciated by many. It deserves to be in the top 15 (IMHO) and we should not be surprised to see it in the top ten in coming rankings. It really is that wonderful.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

Balturol Lower.......lower.

Whats this about raters and steroids......do I have to take a drug test now?  

[Wayne Freeman]

If Friar's Head ever does get rated it should be in the top 30- an architectural masterpiece and a real thrill for anyone lucky enough to get out there.  Could anyone tell me why Winged Foot East is so highly rated?  I've played them both twice and I just didn't feel that the East course has anywhere near the majesty or depth as the West.

[Robert_Walker]

I would prefer to see an alpha list of the top 50 courses, and if it grows, then so be it.
There are now more than 50 "top fifty" courses.
I remember when Lancaster Country Club was in Golf Digest's top fifty.

[Jim Franklin]

Friar's Head and Pete Dye GC in, Shoreacres and Spyglass out.

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