[Jerry Kluger]

I currently belong to a club which is private but is not owned by the members.  We have two courses and while one is rather short, the other is 7000 yards to a par of 70.  The ownership is under the control of one family which has decided to sell the club to Winchester Homes.  Winchester has hired Brian Ault, who currently is Greens Chairman of the club, to design one course while the remainder of the land will be used for houses.  The clubhouse will remain as it is and they will build a new tennis and swim complex.

My concern is that the golf chairman has told me that the proposed design for the new course will be 6530 yards from the tips to a par 72.  There are some recent threads dealing with acreage needed to build a course as well as the relative ease in which a long hitter can play a 7200 yard course.  I am not an overly long hitter and my index is 7.6, but I still have played a number of courses at about this length which I have found to be interesting and challenging.  My question is whether this length is realistic for a new course today and will the lack of length stygmatize the course so that it will not attract new members.  The new course does not have the history nor reputation of some of the great courses which are not overly long so I am concerned that the project will fail and eventually they will just lease the course to Kemper Sports or some other entity to make it a public course.  Will it be better to make it a par 70 at this length or are there other suggestions for how to make this a course people will want to join.  Incidentally, they are talking about 500 members which to me seems far to many in order to have reasonable access to the course.  

[Mike_Cirba]

Jerry;

While I believe that 6,530 yards can clearly be challenging enough depending on design for 99% of golfers, I see other red flags.

Do I understand you correctly that two 18 hole courses are going to be scrapped, with a brand new course configured and the rest of the property going to homesites?  

It doesn't sound to me that the focus is on either the golf or the current membership.  That alone should be enough to keep your ear to the ground.

[Tim Taylor]

Hi Jerry,

I am going to venture a guess that this is Indian Spring in Rockville, MD? If so, it's a shame but given the overheated real estate market in Washington, D.C. it's really no suprise.

To answer your question - In general terms, I think it would be better as a par 70. As examples, I will mention Pasatiempo at 64xx yards from the back tees and par 70 (5 par 3s, 3 par5s) and Cuscowilla at 6402 yards from the middle tees (4 par 3s and 2 par 5s) including par 4s of 437, 459, 428, and 454. Additionally, it has a 602 yard par 5 (uphill!) and a 217 yard par 3. You will hit every club in the bag from the 6400 yard tees at Cuscowilla.

My former club, Loudoun GCC in Purcellville, VA, is par 72 and 6583 yards. It was a neat and fun course to play but on a good day I could have nothing longer than an 8 iron into every par 4. The par 3s were 8I, 6I, 5I, 7I. Two of the par 5s could be reached with long irons following a well placed and long tee shot. I could play entire rounds and not hit a 3I or 4I.

Being a closet Pete Dye (aren't we all?), I always thought that Loudoun could be stretched another 100 yards or so and one of the par 5s made into a long par 4. Then you'd have 6650 or so and par 71.

TimT

[Jerry Kluger]

Mike: There is no question that golf is not the motive for the project and is probably viewed more as a necessary evil.  It is unfortunate that the founder of the club is not around to see what has happened to his vision.  That vision was to give people from many different backgrounds and different financial standing the opportunity to join a country club.  Unfortunately, his children and grandchildren don't want to bother with continuing to operate the club even if it is extremely profitable.

[Duane Sharpe]

With Blackhawk's total yardage from the tips being 6800 yards, the Nationwide tour would not even stop to look at the course. They said "without even visiting Blackhawk, we can tell you that you NEED to add 200 extra yards to host our tournaments"
They obviously have not tried to putt on Rod's greens or hit a nine iron out of our fescue rough.
This is a frustrating topic amoungst golf course developers these days. I hope that we can balance length and challenge with different design features encorporated today.
super

[Jonathan Cummings]

Jerry,

Over the years I've grown to know Tom, Brian & clan reasonably well - possibly evidenced by the fact that I was recently asked to write an article about the history of the Ault/Clark group (Wash Golf Monthly - June).  In preparation, I have spent multiple occasions at their Kensington office interviewing the whole lot and can assure you they hold Indian Springs dear to their heart.  Whatever constraints the owners have defined, Brian, Dan & Eric (I don't believe Tom is involved) want to make IS a fine course for the players - whoever they may be.

I can't tell you anything about the owner's objectives but can tell you that the architects care very much about the project.

JC

PS - your handicap is down to 7.8?  

[Bill_McBride]

How can they know at this stage that the new course will be just 6530 yds?  There's a lot of acreage out there.  I played there a few times in the late 80's and early 90's and enjoyed Indian Springs quite a bit.  A bunch of good holes and not short from the tips.

[Jason Mandel]

This is Indian Spring in Silver Spring, correct?  If so this is very sad to hear.  I played the longer course, I think the Chief only once but enjoyed it immensely.  By the size of the men's locker room it looked like they had a huge membership.

The course could have used some tree clearing, but besides that I thought the course was very solid.  That is really a shame if they are going to get rid of both of the current courses.

By the way, anyone in Silver Spring make sure to get to Parkway Deli, great jewish deli!

jason

[Jerry Kluger]

I am talking about Indian Spring in Silver Spring, Maryland.  I am not questioning the sincerity of Brian Ault and it is my understanding that the yardage restraints are to meet the demands of the neighborhoods through which the new residents will be driving, and to meet the demands of the environmentalists who want more land set aside.  The problem as I understand it is the original courses were built back when the environmental issues were not of such great concern and they were essentially grandfathered in.  They were given quite a bit of leeway concerning the streams which run through the courses and they must now address the issues.  

Indian Spring has a wonderful history as it was originally a Donald Ross design but the course was taken by the government due to highway construction so they moved further out to where they are now.  The founder of the club was sincere in his desire to make golf accessible to people of all backgrounds and Indian Spring was the first private club in the Washington, DC area with a large number of minority members.  That tradition is still true today as the club has a very diverse membership.  The club is also viewed by many in the area as wonderful open green space and they do not want to see it become a housing development.  The club has many outings during the year and has traditionally held the "Heroes" tournament to recognize the bravery and dedication of the police officers and firefighters.  

The founder of the club died quite a while ago and his son and son-in-law who now control the club are quite old.  The family is very wealthy and has extensive real estate holdings and the next generation is just not interested in operating a country club even if it is very profitable.  The members have no voice in what happens so we must make a decision as to whether we should stay with the club during the construction or move on.  My concern is whether the proposal of a 6530 yard course will work, i.e., will enough people be interested in being members of a new course of that length.  I am not in the position to question the ability of the architects but they do not have the name which itself would attract members such as Dye, Crenshaw, Fazio, Nicklaus, etc.  It won't be much of a course during construction so I must decide whether I should stick it out or go somewhere else.  I have many friends at the club so I would like to stay but I don't want it to become a point of frustration rather than a place of enjoyment.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()