HOW WOULD YOU IMPROVE AUGUSTA NATIONAL?

[Gib_Papazian]

Gentlemen,

Evidently, Professor Whitten found my "How would you improve Rustic Canyon" thread a bit presumptuous. Being an enormous fan of the golf course notwithstanding, I found it to be an interesting exercise - even if the dean of architecture critics took bemused issue with it.

So, having queried the Treehouse on how we might improve the appearance of a cult favorite, I have mustered up the temerity to initiate a critique of golf's Nicole Kidman.

Augusta provides great drama, but given my penchant for heresy, I would like to state that The Masters would be (read: even more) exciting if the holes were jiggered around on the back nine.

Of course, this is not possible given the land, so this theoretical discussion assumes an autocratic club chairman and a magic wand.    

For starters, the concept of #12 and #16 being switched sounds like an improvement.

#12 at Augusta and #17 at TPC Sawgrass are the same hole, except in the penultimate spot, the TPC hole builds the tension all the more.

#17 & #18 at Augusta are not TRULY compelling from a design standpoint. I say they are the two LEAST INTERESTING holes on the back nine from the perspective of the viewer.

#17 has strong and interesting putting surface contours, but #18 is just an uphill  tee shot through a ridiculous chute. Except for the double-tiered putting surface, the green complex is not any more creative or unique than something Ted Robinson would conjure up.

#16 is an excellent Jones Sr. par-3, but it does not provide the pucker factor and wild drama of #11, #12, #13, #15.

Heck, I would replace the finishing hole with either #14 (wild green) or #11 without the slightest reservation. The *cadence* of the course from a tournament and spectator standpoint would be drastically improved.

The Green Jackets expend enormous effort trying to jazz up their best holes, yet except for lengthened tees and a bunch of tree plantings, I do not see how either of the two finishing holes are not a letdown when compared to what came before them

It reminds me a bit of the Dunluce (Portrush for ye neophytes), where you have 16 wonderous architectural statements, followed by an enormous blow-out bunker at #17 that does not come into play and a mediocre finishing hole - whether scored  as a par-5 or par-4.

IMNSHO, they ought to ditch the silly rough at Augusta, lose most of those trees, forget about the concept of (protecting par) and give DeVries, Doak or especially Pete Dye free rein on the last two holes.

The golf course represents an eclectic collection of ideas over decades from  different architects. Nothing there is sacrosanct, so my vote is to rectify the weaknesses at Augusta  . . . .

[Theresa Stotler]

I really think the Bunkering needs major improvements.  They look so artifical, I am not saying that they play easy, as Phil demonstrated this, but gosh, when you see them they just look out of place. Perhaps it is the white sand, just not interesting.

[Gib_Papazian]

Theresa,
Agreed. In truth, the bunkers look suspiciously like Raymond Floyd's ovals at Doral a few years ago.

My initial thoughts on starting this critique was focused on reorganizing the individual holes in a more dramatic fashion. However, you bring up a great point.

Why are the bunkers on what is supposedly a MACKENZIE COURSE so sharp lined, uniform and unnatural in appearance?

What would happen if instead of planing a bunch of trees and rough that compromises the strategic lines of play, they made every bunker look as good as the one on #10?

Spectacular.

Think of the recent work at Cypress Point. Now, move that concept to Augusta.

[Dunlop_White]

1.There's a two time past champion by the name of Ben Crenshaw, who loves classical designs and relishes ANGC, who could offer valuable insight, if asked. Besides, I understand that he and his partner do some really good work.

2. Bring Seve back! Get rid of the understory of newly planted stuffer trees, which will revive the recovery game.

3. The "second cut" snuck up over 2.25 inches by Saturday. It's rough!

4. The newly planted trees on 11 - look out green committees.

5. Just check out the depth of the fairway bunkers on Hole 5! That's really pushing the envelope!

[cary lichtenstein]

Give Hootie a golden parachute

[JNC Lyon]

First and Foremost, Take out the stupid pine trees on 15! How exciting is it watching someone pitch out from the left side of the fairway.

Second, take out about half of the pine trees on the back nine. They only function as eyesores.

Shorten up Number 7, and redo the Nicklaus bunkering on Number 3. This would return the glory to these two short par fours.

[James Edwards]

The Green at 16...  It seemed every putt on Sunday was from the same place??

[A_Clay_Man]

Gib- I'm glad you didn't suggest moving. or replacing the 18th and 13th. In my mind the 13th's position, in the sceme of things, is amazing.

One reason against switching 12 and 16 is the excitement to recover should one blow-up on 12. If it were the 3rd to last there would be no time left or holes where the aggressive options are minimized.

I'm also somewhat shocked at what I've read this year. First there was the blurb in the Scottish Newsletter that described the PATRONS actions while Darren Clarke led the Masters back in '98 (i think?). And then to read this, posted by our own Jim Lewis, who witnessed this first hand:

The shot he hit (a 4 iron, I think) was a low-line drive pull hook across the fairway into the left half of the pond. I'll never forget my embarrassment and the angry reaction of his brother, who was his caddy, when many in the gallery near me cheered at his bad shot.

So, changing around a few holes, I'm agin. But changing the attitude of the PATRONS, seems imperative, if GOLF, is gonna be played.

[Mike Benham]

The shot he hit (a 4 iron, I think) was a low-line drive pull hook across the fairway into the left half of the pond. I'll never forget my embarrassment and the angry reaction of his brother, who was his caddy, when many in the gallery near me cheered at his bad shot.

I thought this was the quote (and the shot) attributed to Seve's collapse in '86 ...

[ChasLawler]

For the professionals - I wouldn't change a thing.

15 would be boring without the new trees. Most pros today hit it so far that position wouldn't even be an issue without those trees. It would just be: bomb the drive and hit short/mid iron to the back of or over the green. You might see more eagles, but I don't think you'd see more bogeys. At least the hole requires a good shot off the tee now.

The added length all around at least cuts down on the amount of wedges being hit into par 4s.

At times it seems people forget just how good the PGA Tour professional is. Augusta's goal is to challenge the best players in the world. While I admit I'm not an expert on the ANGC, I don't think it's unfair to assume that it's not a member's course.

While everything we cry about on here may make some sense for the average 2 handicapper, it's ridiculous IMO to think that the 50 best players in the world right now wouldn't completely tear up that course without the recent changes.

[Peter Galea]

Let ME play there!

[JakaB]

The real world way of switching holes is the dreadful shot-gun start....I think starting on 8 and finishing on 7 would provide the best scoring opportunities.

[A_Clay_Man]

Mike Benham- Yes, you are correct! It was just another example of poor sportmanship, that I, in my naivetee', thought was not part of "the masters".

[Tony_Chapman]

What's amazing to me how wonderful I thought the place was in 2001 when we went there and how they keep tinkering with it. My guess is the "Green Jackets" will stop at nothing to "improve" there golf course.

Architecturally, I don't know what I would improve, but I assume since we get to do whatever we want, I would go with this.

Route the course as follows for the Masters:

1-6, 17, 18, 10-16, 7-9. In this case, the current ninth would be the finisher. I would love to see the tournament on the line on that green. We have all seen the back to front horror of that thing.

The obvious problem with this is that the ninth hole would not return to the clubhouse (it would be the current 10th), but I can live with that.

I think 7, 8 and 9 would me a more exciting finish to the tournament and coupled with Amen Corner and the 15 and 16 it would be a wonderful back nine.

[Gib_Papazian]

It might be a better question to ask how we might improve #17 & #18.

[Jfaspen]

I actually like the 18th at augusta..  The tee shot demands an accurate shot with both the "chute" effect and the bunkers that threaten a wayward far drive.  
The approach shot is uphill and can be blind depending on position in the fairway.  
The green is trickey.  Masters sunday this year provided theatrics because the weather was fine.  If the course had played longer (due to water or wind), I would have been interested to see how well the green would hold longer clubs (approaches from 180+).  
I also like the way the crowds surround the green.  Makes for a perfect theater finish.

17 could be spiced up, but not by me

jf

[Gary_Nelson]

I like the artificially clean and sharp-edged bunkers at Augusta.  It is part of what makes the course so unique.  The entire place is a fantasy-land of greenskeeping overkill... and I like how it looks.   Softening the bunker edges or making them "hairy" would look out of place.

Improvements (if any) might be in making those fairway bunkers DEEPER.  The players are scared of the fairway bunkers on hole #5 because they may have to pitch out sideways.  The Els approach shot on 18 on Sunday would have been even more scary if there was a chance his ball couldn't clear the lip.

Just my 2 cents.

[Mike Hendren]

Guesst's Gib,

Why does the chute on 18 get so much criticism while the chute on CPC's 14th get a pass?  At least at the former you're guaranteed a centerline starting point.  Also, the fairway bunkering there is superb, forcing the player to work the ball or leave a lengthier approach.  Els and Lyle make that bunker shot look easy, but you've got to go to Sand Hills to find a bunker that makes you feel any smaller.  

I see little resemblance between the 12th at Augusta National Golf Club and the 18th at TPC.  The latter is merely target golf, regardless of the pin location.  The incredible shallowness (other than the extreme left-hand third) of the 12th green and its severe angle make it the ultimate half-club decision.  I'm guessing there are far more birdies made at TPC.  

As I've said before, give me two hours on the mower and two days with a pick-up truck and chain and you'll be left with the best golf course in the country.  I refuse, however to remove the debris.  

Specifically, I'd clear out the trees on 7, 11 & 15 (right side) and leave it at that.

As for the criticism of the 16th, I'd leave it alone.  It requires great courage and execution to get the ball close there.  Anyone lacking either better be a fantastic putter to make par.  

Mike

[Dan_Callahan]

I wouldn't touch it. But I wouldn't be too upset by any changes as long as they don't impact the greens. KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF THE GREENS!

[JakaB]

Dan,

As hard as it is to believe...the 13th green contours were new this year....thus the creation of the mystery slot that saved the day.

[Mike_Cirba]

I'd add waterfall features at several key junctures along Rae's Creek, begining with the right side of 12, where several boulders would be added to complete the look.  

By the time the water got over to 11, I would have it cascading down several rock steps, gurgling and churgling to create relaxing sounds of meditation for the patrons.

I've also concluded that if the pros can hit the 11th and 18th fairways, despite the tightening, that the course is still WAY too wide to challenge them.  

I'm thinking instead of just pines however, I'm going to go with the historical heritage of ANGC as a former arboretum, supporting all sort of foliage.  Instead, I'd like to see a nice mixture of Palms, Willows, and Oaks added in dense forestation along each fairway, perhaps narrowed to a testing range of 20 or so yards.

Finally, I think I'd move the 13th green back into the woods another 50-80 yards, and complete the wall of trees at the top of the hill on 15 to ensure that everyone is chipping out on their second shot (Unless they are willing to go for the 400 yard carry to clear the trees).  

That should bring some strategy back to the course.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Gib,
I had a post on here from last night that has mysteriously disappeared.........Sadly, it wasn't out of line or anything either, because it was speaking straight fact.

You weren't being presumptious on the original Rustic Canyon thread, in fact many of the topics discussed have been either discussed, looked at, or even implemented while Gil and Jim were there with Jeff Hicks.

That's why I find it equally bemusing that Ron Whitten would be so bold, especially on this thread because if you all remember, a few years ago Ron wrote and provided computer animation his "IMPROVEMENTS"  to Augusta National in Golf Digest. I found them to be both highly amusing and presumptious because in my honest opinion they further destroyed what little of MacKenzie was left. (Remembering one of the drawings, it had #13 green being moved back some considerable distance from its current location.)

But, I think Ron himself would admit it was a fun exercise and constructive to him as the Dean of Modern Golf Architecture Study. For that purpose, I'm sure the average Golf Digest subscriber found it highly entertaining and thought provoking.

I hope this doesn't come-off as being mean spirited, because like the original it wasn't meant to be.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I also wanted to add, and this is being mean-spirited in anyway, but was Hootie trying to impersonate Bobby Jones in his mannerisms and speech when presenting Feel Micklesin with the green jacket from the Maasta's Toonamint. Or is that just the way he really is?

[Brian_Gracely]

I also wanted to add, and this is being mean-spirited in anyway, but was Hootie trying to impersonate Bobby Jones in his mannerisms and speech when presenting Feel Micklesin with the green jacket from the Maasta's Toonamint. Or is that just the way he really is?

It did sound like his drawl was a little thicker than normal, but considering the way he handled the Maaartha situation last year and his background, I really doubt that he'd try and put on a false front.  I don't think he pulls too many punches or needs to create too many false impressions.  

[Bill Gayne]

Gary,

The depth of the fairway bunkers really surprised me. This years Masters was the first one that I've attended in ten years. The bunkers appear to have been dug out to the max. We spent sometime standing about 25 feet in front of the fairway bunker on #1 and judging by how much of the player disappeared upon entering the bunker I would estimate the depth at about five feet. In order to keep sand on the walls of several bunkers and increase depth, I think the overall dimensions of the bunkers would need to be expanded.