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Jonathan Davison

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Braid or Nicklaus New
« on: April 11, 2004, 01:00:40 PM »
I'm am trying to arrange a trip to Gleneagles for a few students of golf architecture and was wondering which course can we learn the most from, in terms of golf architecture? The Kings or the Monarchs.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 01:49:43 PM by Jonathan Davison »

Evan_Green

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Braid or Nicklaus
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2004, 01:07:28 PM »
Jonny- Are you from the US or Britain-

i would say if you are from the US then it doesnt make sense to go to Scotland to see a Nicklaus course- however if you're from Britain, its a good chance to see a Nicklaus

i would rather see the kings personally

Brian_Ewen

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Re:Braid or Nicklaus
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2004, 06:34:40 PM »
The Queens .

jim_lewis

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Re:Braid or Nicklaus
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2004, 11:09:18 PM »
Of all the courses I have played in Scotland, The Monarch is the last that I would recommend to anyone. In fact, of all the Nicklaus courses I have played, it may also be the last I would recommend.
"Crusty"  Jim
Freelance Curmudgeon

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Braid or Nicklaus
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2004, 03:52:20 AM »
Jonny,

Is there any chance you can play the Kings and then the bunch of you borrow or hire carts to just drive round the Mornarch's?

That way you play the best course there but also get to see how Nicklaus did the routing on the Monarchs.

Brian
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Braid or Nicklaus
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2004, 09:31:03 AM »
Jonny,
I'd agree with Brian...
I, together with some of your other illustrious forebears (well, last years students anyway!) played the PGA Centenary Course (as it's now called) only yesterday. By the way, to do a comparative analysis of it with the Kings or Queens would be an extremely interesting topic for an essay! ;)
I would say that whilst generally Braid had by far the better ground to work with, Nicklaus Design did a relatively good job on the terrain they were given. The Course is undoubtedly composed of a series of MAJOR compromises. (There's some horrific walks between greens and tees - although our walking three-ball was eventually invited through the cart-riding four-ball in front....)
The routing is quite convoluted and, spread as it is around the Estate, fails to provide the Course with any real 'sense of place'. We certainly debated the choice of it for the 2014 Ryder Cup over so many other possible venues.
There's loads more character in the older courses, but again that is largely a result of a clever routing through some really wild post-glacial terrain and the selection and subsequent brilliant realisation of the greensites.
All in all, Gleneagles though must remain as one of the special places in the World in which to play golf. Spectacular!

FBD.

PS If you'd like any further info (or maybe some cheap golf!), I'm only across the water in Fife!
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

James Edwards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Braid or Nicklaus
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2004, 09:38:27 AM »
Johnny,

When you playing? and when are you organising it for?  Is there a spare slot?

I played the Kings and Queens when I was 16 with Mr Alliss, and both courses were excellent..  I haven't seen the new one apart from on the TV.  Id agree and say the Kings though..
@EDI__ADI

Ben Cowan-Dewar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Braid or Nicklaus
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2004, 11:23:58 AM »
Johnny,
The Kings is one of the finest courses in Scotland. It is an architectural treat and therefore definitely the first choice at Gleneagles.

ForkaB

Re:Braid or Nicklaus
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2004, 11:29:53 AM »
Jonny

Look at the Nicklaus course only if you want a lesson in how NOT to route a golf course.  It has some good holes but they are randomly scattered over the terrain like pearls amongst swine.  Play the Kings, and then the Queens, and then have a few pints and take a buggy around the Monarch, or PGA Centenary, or whatever it's called today.