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Jeremy_Glenn.

PGA Driving Distance Through the Years.
« on: February 23, 2003, 08:08:27 PM »
Being stuck in a Wonderful Winter Wonderland  ::), I made up this chart showing the evolution of the PGA Driving Distance through the years:



Series 1 is the No. 1 ranked player.
Series 2 is the No. 10 ranked player.
Series 3 is the No. 100 ranked player.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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CHrisB

Re: PGA Driving Distance Through the Years.
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2003, 08:23:00 PM »
Is the spike in Series 1 around 1997 due to the arrival of you-know-who?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Bruceski

Re: PGA Driving Distance Through the Years.
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2003, 08:38:02 PM »
Chris,
I don't think so. Tiger never averaged over 300 yds until this year. Only Daly did.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Doug Siebert

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Re: PGA Driving Distance Through the Years.
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2003, 08:47:40 PM »
Nope, Tiger has never led, Daly has been #1 every season since 1991 except one.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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My hovercraft is full of eels.

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: PGA Driving Distance Through the Years.
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2003, 03:08:17 PM »
There's a great article by E. Michael Johnson in the Feb 21st issue of Golf World, entitled "Ben's Bats - how do Hogan's 1953 clubs compare to today's?"

I would like to post it here, but can't seem to find it on the website.

Nonetheless, it is very interesting that:

- modern irons have lofts nearly 2.5 degrees stronger and more than five times the offset of Hogan's blades.
- modern clubs start with zero bounce on the 2-iron and climb one degree per club, reaching 8 degrees on the PW.  Hogan's clubs varied widely, including zero bounce on his 8 and 9-irons.
- Hogan's driver had a swingweight of G-2, reportedly the heaviest ever measured by the USGA
- Hogan's driver had only a 145cc clubhead size, versus today's drivers, which sometimes exceed 400cc.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

JakaB

Re: PGA Driving Distance Through the Years.
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2003, 03:12:40 PM »
Paul,

I really got a kick out of that story myself...I have had trouble understanding why a modern blade like the Titleist 681 is so much easier to hit than a classic...and that little bit of information helped.   A blade is not a blade is not a blade.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Rick Shefchik

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Re: PGA Driving Distance Through the Years.
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2003, 03:17:59 PM »
Great work, Jeremy. I wish there were a way to overlay another line on your graph, this one representing the increase in strength and fitness of the average athlete from 1980 to today. I'm sure it would show the same upward trend, but I doubt that it would start dramatically spiking in 1997.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Jamie_Duffner

Re: PGA Driving Distance Through the Years.
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2003, 07:18:23 PM »
Interesting stuff.  Note that there is not a very big difference between 1980 and 1995.  There's eve a dip in the early 90's for all three.  It's post 95 when the yardages really move up.  Does this coincide with the balata ball essentially meeting it's technological demise at the hands of the 2,3, and 4 piece balls?

The paragraph previously occupying this spot removed quickly before I embarass myself!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:02 PM by -1 »
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CHrisB

Re: PGA Driving Distance Through the Years.
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2003, 07:26:16 PM »
Jamie,
The data is for the #1, #10 and #100 strictly in driving distance, not $, world ranking, etc.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Jamie_Duffner

Re: PGA Driving Distance Through the Years.
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2003, 07:28:35 PM »
Yikes - I better edit my post real quickly before my CFA is revoked for being an idiot!

It was the TIger reference that threw me as #1. Duh
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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somalley

Re: PGA Driving Distance Through the Years.
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2003, 07:39:45 PM »
Jeremy,

Excellent data, but as I just posted to Paul's other thread the REAL comparison we need to be looking at is overlaying scoring on the distance graph.  Yes the elite are hitting it further but we have not seen data to see what effect it is having on overall scoring over a large sample!  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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David_Elvins

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Re: PGA Driving Distance Through the Years.
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2003, 08:00:12 PM »
somalley,

I am not so sure what the relevance is in comparing the driving distance to scoring.  I think the more important point, especially on an architectural website, is how the increase in driving distance changes the way a course is being played.  

I think the biggest concern is that the strategy originally inherent in the course design is reduced because 1. Fairway hazards are often made irrellevant, 2.more people are hitting Par 5s in two with medium irons, often reducing the many second shot options that were once available on these holes and 3. Because approach shots are made from a shorter distance, there is less relevance in the angle of approach, making the placing of the Tee shot less important than its length.  

Along with poor architecture and soft greens, the increase in technology appears to reduce the need to be a stategic thinker and shotmaker on the golf course.  This, I believe, is the real issue, how it has effected the way the game is played, not the way the game is scored.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:02 PM by -1 »
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somalley

Re: PGA Driving Distance Through the Years.
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2003, 08:44:24 PM »
David,

I agree with your comments on the reduction of strategic thinking, my point is all of this rhetoric on distance stems from people thinking the pros are SCORING too easily.  At the highest level that is what the game is all about so let's see some data that supports what everybody is crying about.  Distance may be taking some old strategic design elements out of play at some courses, but are those courses still able to hold their own against the scoring?  The last few weeks have shown us that can be the case.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Jeremy_Glenn.

Re: PGA Driving Distance Through the Years.
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2003, 09:20:14 PM »
Somalley,

Scoring would be interesting.  Lee Trevino had the best scoring average in 1980 at 69.74 (I think).  The guy ranked 200th (roughly) had 74 point something.  Today, Tiger had 69.00, the guy way down the list was near 72.

Anyway, scoring isn't necessarily indicative of anything.  What would be great would be to see a stat showing the average course length through the years.  I'm guessing they were probably under 7,000 in 1980, now are over 7,200.  

If pros gained 25 yards over 20 years, that's about 300 yards over 14-15 tee shots, plus you got to figure another 150 ish over the approach shots.

Say an even 500 yards extra length are needed to keep up, if you want the same "test".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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B. Mogg

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Re: PGA Driving Distance Through the Years.
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2003, 10:01:37 PM »
Does anyone know if there are any detailed statistics for driving length (and accuracy) vs handicap?

I have often thought a better guide for designers (along with the statistics for the pros) would be a guide to average golfers distance vs accuracy. It would be good to sit out at a golf course for a few days, on a hole where most would use driver and measure distance and accuracy (metres of centreline) and correlate late that to the handicap of the person driving the ball.

A valid and worthwhile exersies but I just cant find the time - has anyone else done this or have the statistics for it?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul Richards

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Re: PGA Driving Distance Through the Years.
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2003, 05:18:54 AM »
Somalley:

Jeremy makes some very interesting points.  Although scoring has improved, it may not be nearly as much as if the Tour played the same courses at the same length as it did years ago.  

For instance, as recently as 1970, my home course, Beverly hosted the Western Open.  It was played at about 6750 yards or so.  Today the Western is played at Dubs Dread at almost 7300 yards.  Those 550 yards make a bit of difference as far as scoring, wouldn't you say?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG
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