[Adam_F_Collins]

What do people think about building course with one extra hole? There's a course near my home which maintains an extra par three.  

From a club perspective, the hole is invaluable as it has allowed work and maintenance to be done on other holes with much less interruption in play.

Is having an extra hole much more expensive? Or does the versatility it provides even things out?

[Steve Wilson]

There used to be a common practice of maintaining a bye hole for breaking ties in match play.  It was generally a shortish par 3 or even chipping hole between the 18th and the clubhouse.  

I played a course near Southern Pines NC a few years ago that had a nineteenth hole.  It came first in the round and was considered a "warm up" hole.  

  Divide 100 by 19 and that could give you a rough guess of the added expense. I would say it would be about 5 to 7% depending on its length.

[Tyler Kearns]

Adam,

    My old home club is Glendale G & CC in Winnipeg, one of Thompson later tracks (1948) which underwent a renovation by Cornish when they sold off a parcel of land in the late 1980's. The renovation work left intact a great little par 3 along the banks of the Assiniboine River, which was terrifying, although no more than 110 yds. which served as a 19th hole. If you are familiar with Brantford, it is similar to the 3rd hole, only the green is 1/3 the size, very narrow and twice as steep!!! I found it a great retreat to work on my short game, and it certainly posed a fun challenge to break ties at the end of rounds. Sadly, a few years ago I returned to the club, only to realize that the hole had been returned to the wild. I just can't imagine it was too costly to maintain, and am still dumbfounded as to why it was ignored? Really sad.

Tyler Kearns

[Brad Tufts]

Forest Creek in Pinehurst has an extra hole called "the hog" with wooden pigs for tee blocks.  It is a mid-length par three all carry over water, and they say it is to settle bets.  I think it's a little anti-climactic, but when i played there last week and the 9th was closed for some pipe installation, it was nice to have an extra hole to replace it with!

[rocket]

As it was mention before to settle up All square matches.  Or if there is a fairly big distance between the 18 hole to the clubhouse.  A small par 3 hole would be something to lure the boys in the clubhouse to talkover the round with a few beers.

[Jimmy Muratt]

I love the idea of a 19th hole, especially if it fits smoothly into the routing.  The best I've seen is the 19th at Kinloch, below are a couple of pics....

[Robert Emmons]

Also the 19th at the Floridian in Stuart...Wayne Huzinga's private course  by Gary Player...

[Brian Phillips]

Loch Lomond

[Dub_ONeill]

Double Eagle has a bye hole between the 18th green and the clubhouse.  It is a very short par three with water in play.  At least one of the local municipal courses also has duplicate par three holes side by side on the course to facilitate playing through.

[Mike_Cirba]

Lehigh has a good one.

[Mark_Amundson]

Another question, similar to the first.  Has anyone seen any courses that built "practice holes" to use as a warm up or instead of a driving range.  We considered this at Sutton Bay but opted instead to build a 9 hole par three course and a driving range.  Just curious, it would obviouosly be more expensive to build and maintain practice holes than a driving range.

Mark Amundson

[John Moore]

Forest Dunes; the Weiskopf course in Central Michigan, has one. A 117 yd shot from an elevated tee to a very sloped green with a bunker in the middle.

[THuckaby2]

I have seen one course that has a warmup/practice hole - Meadows Farm near Fredricksburg, VA.  But it's a gimmick in a course full of gimmicks, so take it with an ocean full of salt.

If choices have to be made regarding best warmup/practice facilities, jeez I'd have to say err HUGELY on the side of range area with short game section.  The concept of a practice hole seems pretty silly to me, if it's intended to be used for warmup.  I guess it might serve its purpose as an extra hole to settle matches or to use when one of the regular holes is being worked on, but I just don't see the wisdom of using land for this at the expense of a practice area.

Par 3 courses are very cool additions... I'd favor those over extra full holes as well.

But that's just me!

TH

[Bill Gayne]

Jimmy,

In addition to the extra hole at Kinloch, Lester George did 21 holes at Colonial in Toano. I believe that the purpose was primarily for teaching. Maybe he will see our posts and chime in as to the thinking and how the holes have actually worked out at these facilities.

[Pete Buczkowski]

Mark:

World Woods has three practice holes and a 9 hole par 3 course.

The extra hole at Blackthorn in South Bend, Indiana is an interesting concept.  It starts at the clubhouse ahead of the first and can be played as a practice hole.  The first has two distinct teeing areas:  one by the clubhouse for those who don't play the practice hole and one by the green of the extra hole for those who do.  This would seem to complicate the starter's job immensely.  Anybody else know of a similar extra hole?

BTW - its a driveable par 4 (or a long par 3) at 265.

Pete

[THuckaby2]

Pete - those practice holes at WW are very cool and a very nice addition.  I whipped around those once and really enjoyed it.

BUT... one must also note that WW also has one of the world's greatest ranges!  They were blessed with a HUGE amount of land, so they have everything a golf could possiboy want there:  range, short game area, putting course, practice holes... right?

Just to clarify, my take is if choices have to be made - as Mark implies was the case at Sutton Bay - let's have practice range and a par 3 course, as he did, rather than practice holes and NO range.

If everything can be included - as at WW - then that's great also.

TH

[Pete Buczkowski]

Tom:

Yes, very good point about the land surplus at WW.  I was using the "or" part of Mark's query.    

Man, that range at WW has to be the biggest in the world.  When I move to FL, I want to hit balls from every area of that range.

[Michael Dugger]

No one has mentioned Colt's gem, St. George Hill, yet

[Kevin_Reilly]

Tilden Park in Berkeley has an extra hole - a 90-100 yd hole that is located beyond the second green.  It is used rather infrequently...only when one of the other holes is taken out of play.

Sharp Park in Pacifica also has a little par 3 that was used when the course lost some holes in the late 80s.  It seemed to be more of a practice hole that was adopted for use.  The Tilden hole is too far away from the clubhouse to function as a practice hole.

[THuckaby2]

Kevin:

In the case of Tilden, wasn't the "extra" hole part of the regular routing at one point?  I sure remember playing it, long ago... and not skipping any other holes later... maybe I am dreaming.

Re Sharp Park, first of all thanks for the mention, so that I can tell Benham once again to take his demanded apology in another thread and shove it, where he claims we discussed it only twice.  Here it is again.    But mainly, are you talking about the current #8?  App. 100 yards, comes right after re-crossing the street to the side where the bulk of the course is... I've never played the course where that hole WASN'T part of the normal 18.  It is an obvious add-on from the time the ocean overflowed the course, causing the building of the dike that's there now, and a massive re-do of many holes (the late 80s thing you mention)... But isn't it correct to say "is used" rather than "was used"?  It sure was there when I was there last, which was about a year ago... Or have they finally replaced it with a different hole?  And if so, where is it?

TH

[David Ownby]

Although I haven't played this course in several years, I believe the Virginian in Bristol TN/VA (site of last year's U.S. Senior Amateur) has three extra holes that are generally used as warm up holes. If my memory is correct, two shortish par fours and a par three.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Kevin:

In the case of Tilden, wasn't the "extra" hole part of the regular routing at one point?  I sure remember playing it, long ago... and not skipping any other holes later... maybe I am dreaming.

Re Sharp Park, first of all thanks for the mention, so that I can tell Benham once again to take his demanded apology in another thread and shove it, where he claims we discussed it only twice.  Here it is again.    But mainly, are you talking about the current #8?  App. 100 yards, comes right after re-crossing the street to the side where the bulk of the course is... I've never played the course where that hole WASN'T part of the normal 18.  It is an obvious add-on from the time the ocean overflowed the course, causing the building of the dike that's there now, and a massive re-do of many holes (the late 80s thing you mention)... But isn't it correct to say "is used" rather than "was used"?  It sure was there when I was there last, which was about a year ago... Or have they finally replaced it with a different hole?  And if so, where is it?

TH

I've been playing Tilden for years, and the only times we've played the extra hole was when 1) another hole was out of play or 2) pace of play is slow so you have time to play it between holes 2 and 3.

Re: Sharp, originally (at least in the early 80s, before the 82 we winter) that was a practice hole.  It was put in play when they needed to find a replacement for the seaside holes.  I haven't played there in YEARS so I had no idea it was still in play.  So I guess it no longer is a practice hole!

[THuckaby2]

Kevin:

Michas gracias.  Re Tilden, I must be dreaming.  Funny thing is that "extra" is a really cool golf hole... swapping it for one of the other par threes sure isn't that big of a net loss.

Re Sharp, oh yes that hole certainly does seem to be permanent, for better or worse.

TH

[John_Lovito]

Knowllwood in Westchester County, New York has a par 3 19th hole.  Short hole with a small green used to settle bets.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Adam F Collins,

White Beeches in Haworth, NJ has had a nice 19th hole which is a challenging Par 3.

Mike Cirba,

Refresh my memory on Lehigh, I don't remember it.

Robert Emmons,

Refresh my memory on The Floridian, I don't remember it.

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