6-6-6: Evil courses?

[THuckaby2]

I just played a course the other day that has 6 par threes, 6 par fours, 6 par fives.  It was the Vineyards course at Chardonnay GC in Napa, CA - and at this course, it worked very well.  This mix made for a lot of action, and I sure didn't come away wishing for missing par fours.

So it got me to thinking:  are there many other courses like this?  Is the idea good, bad, or indifferent?  Of course we know that the best thing is to "find" the golf holes the land holds, but if decisions are to be made, what do you think of this mix?

TH

[David Wigler]

Plum Hollow (Which you have made it your lifes mission to avoid) is 5-8-5.  I like this much more than 4-10-4.  I cannot think of a 6-6-6 but it sounds like fun.

[ChasLawler]

The Old Course at The Homestead has that 6-6-6 configuration. I'm not sure if it was designed that way from the start though.

I can't think of any reason off the top of my head why there should be something wrong with this set-up. The Homestead's Old Course is a lot of fun to play. Perhaps if all the par 3's were similar, it could get old. But as long as there is some variety, I think the 6-6-6 set-up is great.

[THuckaby2]

David - Plum Hollow just grows and grows in coolness to me.  Some day... I know, all talk... but this is a quest.  To SEE IT, that is, not to avoid it.  

Cabell:  I guess we don't see more of these only because it's sort of abnormal?  That is, the 4-10-4 setup is so ingrained as a "normal" par 72, that 5-8-5 is pushing things, and 6-6-6 must just seem so weird that architects are reticent to do it.

It does seem like a lot of fun, though... more par fives mean more birdie chances for the sticks, more par threes mean more chances for decent scores for the hacks...

TH

[Mike_Cirba]

Sandpiper Bay north of Myrtle Beach (by Dan Maples) is a relatively user-friendly 666 configuration.  

Sort of spooky swamps nearby, though, if that counts.  Perhaps he should have used the same configuration at his nearby courses named, "The Witch", and "The Wizard".  

[Lou_Duran]

If I am not mistaken, Jeff Brauer may have done one of these in the past couple of years north of Dallas.

His greens at my home club, Great Southwest, are no less than pure evil, but most of the members seem to like them.

[Dave_Miller]

Tom:
There are several 5-8-5 places I know of including Charles River and one of the courses at Canoe Brook.  Although for tournaments and Championships The River is 5 par 3's and 2 par 5's.  Par 70.
Have never seen a 6-6-6 configuration but it does sound like fun.  As long as those 6 fives are pretty short
Best,
Dave

[Brian Phillips]

Hucks,

I thought someone like yourself would know that one of the greatest heathland courses is 6-6-6...

The Berkshire Red..

Brian

[THuckaby2]

Brian:  I am sadly, dishonorably, disgracedly, poorly-versed in the heathland courses.  That is pretty cool to hear about the Red, though!  

And Dave Miller - good call re the esteemed Charles River!  The 5-8-5 sure works there.  But more importantly, I think you make a good point re length - 6-6-6 wouldn't be any fun at all if all of the par fives were brutal long three shotters.  Put a mix in there - say 2 long, 2 medium, 2 short and reachable - and this is what exists at Chardonnay, come to think of it - and it does work.

Another silly thought:  is it possible that the negative biblical connotations of 666 keeps courses away from doing this?

TH

[Tony_Chapman]

The nine-hole course I grew up on in Nebraska was a 3-3-3. Does this mean it is half as bad, or half as good.   A pretty fun little course actually and we go back all the time.

The course where my dad belongs now is a 6-8-4, par 70 which isn't seen too often either, I don't think.

[THuckaby2]

Whoa... 6-8-4 par 70 has to be VERY unique... and sounds like a hell of a lot of fun, also.

The 3-3-3 nine is halfway to heaven, or hell.  

TH

[JohnV]

There is a course in Oregon that is 6-6-6.  Spring Hills or something like that down near Albany.  I never played it but heard it was fun.  There seem to be more 5-8-5 or 5-9-4 courses today than a few years ago.  I'm sure that some of that has to do with land restrictions that force odd routings.

I always wondered if someone went to the extreme and built a 9-0-9 course what it would be like.  Have 9 par 3s that ranged from 100 yards to 250 yards and 9 fives from 470 to 650 or so.  Call it No-Fours Golf Club.  Kind of like the book that was written a few years ago without the using letter 'e'.

[Marty Bonnar]

Crikey Brian,
You beat me to that by about 3 milliseconds. For the record, the rythym of the Red is:
5,3,5,4,3,4,3,4,5
3,4,4,5,4,5,3,5,3


Definitely NOT evil, Tom - rather splendid actually!
Well balanced to say the least and a cracking good bunch of Par 3's. Here's the ones I have pics of...

The Second


The Tenth


The Sixteenth


The Eighteenth


Mr Fowler certainly used the land well.

What a brilliant day that was....
FBD.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Lou is right (about the pure evil thing) and also that I designed Westridge Golf Course in McKinney, TX as a 6-6-6.

[Tony_Chapman]

For Tom's enjoyment, the routing of my friend - the York Country Club is as follows:

4-3-5-3-4-3-4-4-5 = 35
4-3-5-5-3-4-3-4-4 = 35

I should really try to get some pictures and post them.

The 9-holer - Valley View Country Club went:

4-3-4-5-3-4-5-3-5 = 36

[THuckaby2]

That is cool.  I do like variety... of course this can occur in many other ways, and par is supposed to be meaningless, but... this type of thing just does intrigue me.  Thanks, Tony.

TH

[Adam_F_Collins]

Brudenell River in Prince Edward Island is a 6-6-6. It's a lot of fun. It's a 'Robbie' Robinson of Cornish and Robinson design. They now have a new course on the same property by Hurdzan/Fry called Dundarave. At the few points where the two courses come close together, they look like their on two different planets - let alone the same property...

I always thought the 6-6-6 mix to have a lot of potential - especially if the yardages of each vary by a lot.

[Pete Buczkowski]

Tom:

Stonehedge North in West Michigan is another 6-6-6.  Its part of the Gull Lake View Resort, but I think its more of a daily fee course ($37 or $47 all day).

http://www.gulllakeview.com/content.php?link=stonehedge_north.php

Its a lot of fun; the yardage on the par 3s are all different by at least 10 yards from the tips (6673) with only one exception.  I think this course is a blast - lots of variety and plenty of opportunities for birdie on the par 5s.

[THuckaby2]

Very cool -thanks, gents.  I kinda figured there had to be a few out there.  And they do seemingly get good reviews... Can anyone think of one where it DOESN'T work?

And if there aren't many of those, then why don't we see more of this?

TH

[JohnV]

I put the following strings in Google (including "s)

"6 Par 3s" "6 Par 5s" and got a bunch of courses back from Prince Edward Island to Oklahoma to Australia.

[Jim Thompson]

Don't forget the courses at Garland.  I believe Reflection & Fountain are 6-6-6 if I remember correctly.  Website is www.garlandusa.com for those interested.  Great courses for match play type games.

Cheers!

JT

[ian]

I think it may not be common because it creates a shorter yardage.

The bulk of a courses yardage comes from the fours.

[THuckaby2]

Hmmmm... great point, Ian.  The net effect of 6-6-6 would be a shorter golf course, even with the "extra" fives.  The course I played was relatively short.

That may well keep people from doing this.

TH

[A_Clay_Man]

To avoid the negative connotation, how about referring to the nines, instead. Such as,  so and so has two nines that are 3, 3 & 3 ?

Baxter's newish nine at Riverview is this connfig. It is arguably the best nine in the county. The shortish nature, is actually what makes it FUN. With the wind's ability to blow from every direction, and hardly a tree on the course, there is something intoxicating (for us mortals) about hitting 8 irons into par 5's, on the rarest of occasions.

[frank_D]

.....are there many other courses like this?.......
TH

brother TH

RAINTREE GOLF CLUB Pembroke Pines FLA is a 6-6-6

i don't know what this configuration does to the slope or your Handicap Index

personally - it's easier to bogey a par five and par a par three than par a par four for me