First Tee Courses

[Forrest Richardson]

Last week I took my daughter (Haley, a nine-year-old) to the First Tee of Phoenix, a 9-hole par-3 course operated by the Phoenix Thunderbirds, the group that puts on the Phoenix Open.

It was a great experience for Haley and me — we played nine holes of 100-yard or less golf, learned about the rules and had a grand time. She shot a 60-something. By the way, the Thunderbirds First Tee course is a Fazio design — nicely done with some neat greens.

What other First Tee courses are there out there? Can we discuss them? What communities need one?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Forrest

For a complete list of First Tee facilities visit:

www.thefirsttee.org

When I played Vistal GC(formerly Thunderbirds GC) I took a tour of the First Tee course there. Very impressive. I'm surprised of the number of facilities nationwide. I didn't count the number of actual courses but it's a growing concept.
By the way, Vistal GC must be one of the great value courses in close in PHX. I enjoyed the course.

Steve

[Forrest Richardson]

Vistal was a bargain to BUY — it also is a faily good value to play! The Thunderbirds spent a reported $12 million and it sold at bankruptcy for arounf $4 million. Of course, spending $12 million was absurd to begin with...the place never even came close to that value.

[Mike_Sweeney]

A previously posted picture of Dylan Sweeney @ Mosholu in The Bronx. Stephen Kay took it from 18 to 9 holes, with a nice range and short game area added for kids. Kids are always welcome.

http://www.thefirstteemetny.org/Club/Scripts/Home/home.asp

[Jeff_Mingay]

Not to be a party pooper of sorts, 'cause I've thought the First Tee program to be a neat idea.

However, after reading Geoff Shackelford's new book, The Future of Golf in America, I must say, he makes a very good point. Just reinstitute caddie programs as a way to introduce inter-city youth and other under-privileged kids to golf. That's the way it happened for the first 70-80 years of this century in North America. And it was very successful, without having to built $12 million facilities!

The irony is, a lot of the money supporting the First Tee program comes from corporate America, people who are members of private golf and country clubs who could work for the reinstitution of caddie programs.

[Forrest Richardson]

Jeff, the Thunderbirds 18-hole course cost $12 million...not the First Tee course which is across the street. Let's be fair!

I have not read Geoff's latest book, but I suspect his ideas are much along the lines of what I have read in his columns and other writings...good stuff...often a viewpoint to generate a reaction. But, I'll have to read it to develop a decent opinion...and I'll be open-minded. Really.

I like caddie programs, but fail to believe they will replace an introduction to very young children on made-to-size courses. Geoff does not have kids of his own, so I really don't think he can be an expert in what will motivate the youth of 2004 and beyond.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Not to be a party pooper of sorts, 'cause I've thought the First Tee program to be a neat idea.

However, after reading Geoff Shackelford's new book, Tre Future of Golf in America, I must say, he makes a very good point. Just reinstitute caddie programs as a way to introduce inter-city youth and other under-privileged kids to golf. That's the way it happened for the first 70-80 years of this century in North America. And it was very successful, without having to built $12 million facilities!

The irony is, a lot of the money supporting the First Tee program comes from corporate America, people who are members of private golf and country clubs who could work for the reinstitution of caddie programs.

Jeff,

City kids don't have cars. There is one "Manhattan kid" here at GCA that got his drivers license at 23 years old. The subway is about 150 yards from the first tee at Mosholu, plus a bunch of buses are right outside the gate. In order for a kid in The Bronx to get to Winged Foot, Quaker Ridge or any of the Westchester clubs, he has to take the subway to Manhattan, then take the train up to Westchester and then take a cab to the course. They are not riding their bikes like suburban kids/caddies such as yours truely used to.

Westchester would be easy compared to New Jersey !!

[ForkaB]

This whole concept of reinstituting caddy programs is a pipe dream, because:

1.  Most of the best courses have caddy programs that have been institutionalized into a closed shop.  The old hands make a pretty good living, but there is not much room left for the kids to break in, or even get enough money to top up their cell phone.

2.  Most importantly, playing (Caddy Day, Monday) only one day a week in the summer (even on the best courses) is not enough these days to really bring people into the game.  What do the kids do on the other 6 days of the week?  Ooops, they're out caddying, aren't they?

Ist tee is a great idea, if it gets supported by the clubs.

Is there a viable caddy program at Rustic Canyon?  Just wondering.

[Mark_Fine]

The First Tee concept is great and I'm happy to say we are just about to sign our letter of intent to establish The First Tee of the Lehigh Valley!  We have been running an underserved youth golf program for several years now called Embrace Your Dreams and the association with the First Tee will dramatically help our fund raising and overall ability to help kids.  We now have about 200 kids in our various programs and expect that number to go up several fold.  

I actually designed a flexible golf course for the First Tee that the kids would be able to play many different ways including as a nine hole par three and a six hole executive course.  It would have a neat short game area and driving range.  We may now end up building something like this at a different site which would give us even more possibilities.  

You don't appreciate how important and influencial these programs are until you go out there and spend some time with the kids.  It can bring out a lot of emotions.  

[A_Clay_Man]

Forrest- Riverview's frontnine is a first tee course. Mario added teeing grounds near the 150 mark on all  nine holes. Tom Yost, the head-pro, just went to Governor Richardsons office and he liked the notion so much he gave Tom 80k, then the First Tee matched 40 of it, for a 120k.

I recently saw some stakes with pink ribbon, on the adjacent BLM land. I wonder if the college has enough funds to actually make a go of another new nine. And I have to add, that if they don't hire Baxter, to compliment his '99 design, they are doomed.

Jeff M- I'm with Rich on the caddy thing. When I volunteered in Monterey to help teach kids in the first tee program there. I was exposed to a little chineese girl who had perfect form and whacked whitey about 150 yds. She could'nt have been 3 feet tall. Her ability to carry and caddie was to say the least, impossible. So your idea would'nt cover anyone but over-sized 14 yr old boys.

[Bruce Katona]

I have had the pleasure of working, for the past year, with a group in northern New Jersey to bring a First tee Facility to this area.  We look forward to making a public announcement on our project in the near future.  Empire Golf has always and will continue to support junior golf here in the NY/NJ Metropolitan Area.

[Bob_Huntley]

It is all well and good to speak of caddie programs, but it requires a good deal of thought and effort for them to succeed.

Having seen so many scrawny children trying to heft a bag of clubs around a course, I have often wondered why the Children's Protection Agency hasn't sued someone. Most of the childen now playing under the aegis if the First Tee program, are in no way, shape or form capable of caddieing.
A minimum height or weight is, or should be, mandatory.

[Robert Thompson]

I've toured the Virginia Beach facility for the First Tee, which included a courses designed by Pete and Alice Dye. It was kind of neat and appeared to function quite nicely.

Having read Geoff's book, I agree that caddie programs are a great idea. That said, I think the invention of carts has doomed that notion in some respects -- look at the UK, where caddies are still common, and you won't find many carts.

In the Toronto area, there are exactly three courses that offer caddie programs, and only one (Hamilton Golf & Country Club) where they use school age kids to carry bags. I must admit I'm kind of partial to allowing teens to carry golf bags -- it gives them access to the course and the game, but they don't offer me a lot of unwanted advice. It also gives the kids access to Hamilton's short course -- which is also a big plus.

I don't see a reason why more caddie programs should not be introduced, while at the same time co-existing nicely with the First Tee.

Robert

[JohnV]

I don't know about all clubs, but most clubs around here that do have caddie programs today require kids to at least 14 or 15.  Most of the kids that do end up being caddies are already interested in golf.  In order to get kids interested in golf we need programs like the First Tee to hook them before they can caddie.

[Gib_Papazian]

We tried to lure in some local kids at Olympic to freshen up our caddy program a few years back and it was a complete failure. The kids in the surrounding neighborhoods are not affluent, so it seemed a great match.

The starting fee was $10 for a single and I do not know anyone who did not peel off a Jackson at the end of the round.

With just a few trips around the golf course as a stone rookie, most of these kids could have gotten their "A" status and started to make real money. Remember, CASH.

But after a short time, they quit showing up. . . . . I guess toting a bag around in the fresh air is too much work in comparison to flipping burgers or selling crank.

I was a 12 year-old caddy as were most of my friends who played. . . . . most all from affluent families. My mom and dad told me if I wanted any extra money I needed to learn the value of work.

I was paid $6.50 a bag plus tip. Until I got big enough to pack double, $8.00 was big jing. Even after I began to pack double, with $16 in my shorts, I felt like Howard Hughes.

Any kid with a little something on the ball can make a minimum of $100 a loop these days. Cash.

But none of them wanted to go through the effort to learn the trade.

So now, with few exceptions, we have the same tattered group of winos and reprobates from my childhood.

If you ask me, the First Tee Program is nothing more than a wasteful, feel-good exercise that accomplishes almost nothing when juxtaposed to the obscene expenditures.

I am not suggesting this is true in the rest of the country, but here in Nutville, USA, our public tracks are overcrowded already, and it is a trauma to build even a little kiddie course without ridiculous amounts of permitting.

The other  thing that annoys me is the selfish attitude of the private clubs in the area . . . . us golf coaches might know something about that.

I've still got a dream of creating a little 9-holer on the abandoned land west of Skyline at Olympic where our old Ocean course was once routed. . . . . let local kids play it for free or cheap and maybe use that as a draw for some caddys.

I ran it by one of our Directors and the first words out of his mouth was "liability issue." . . . . . . Bullshit.

We don't need a wasteful First Tee program in the country, we need the private clubs to step up. I think about places like that cool little 9-holer at Cherry Hills that nobody every plays. We can start there.  . . . . .
   

[ForkaB]

This is yet another great idea, Gib.  You're on a roll!  I'm trying to promote the same thing at Dornoch.  They had a great 9-holer 15 years ago (the Struie) but they've made it into a good but kid (and Super senior) unfriendly 18-holer.  Fortunately they have enough extra land to build a neat little 9-holer, but will they do it?  I think it's a matter of when rather than if, because for all its faults, the club is very kid-centric.

[JakaB]

Gib,

When we were growing up we didn't need special courses because the old men were dead and the young ones were at work.   Kids have more sense than to want to spend time around the people today who call themselves golfers...we had a great run but it's over now.  

[Forrest Richardson]

OK chaps, it may not be the BEST program, but I will take the position that The First Tee program IS beneficial and will seek a decent level in terms of helping kids get to know golf.

Gib — "...wasteful First Tee program..." Gosh. I wasn't aware that such a modest amount of spending in the large world of golf would be characterized this way.

I can't possible justify calling the program "wasteful" in nearly any regard. It may need reinventing here and there, but it seems to me that golf should be trying to bring kids into courses and programs where they can learn values and have access which is thought of as "their own". The First Tee program — despite isolated failures — does this and tries at every turn to do more.

You will never find this commitment at a private club — Saturday mornings will be out, so will member's days, etc. That is not say that private clubs, municipalities, management companies, etc. should not join in and do their own thing...this is excellent!

[Robert Thompson]

It is my understanding that most of the architects who work on the First Tee courses do so without any payment. I don't think the courses are the program could be called wasteful, considering they are largely done inexpensively and generally have been used by hundreds of youngsters.

I bet if you asked more architects, like Forrest or Ian Andrew (or Dye, as he has done in the past, or others...) if they would donate their time to such projects, the answer would be an emphatic "yes." Not that I'm offering their services, this is a bit of an assumption....

It is there way of giving back to the game.

Robert

[Gib_Papazian]

Forrest,

I would like to see some statistics comparing dollar expenditures to how many kids take up golf and STICK WITH IT because of the First Tee program.

Like everything else run by bloated organizations (The USGA included), this initiative could be accomplished cheaper and with far greater results by private clubs.

The problem is that a certain percentage of nearly every membership is comprised of selfish, obnoxious, "children should be seen and not heard" assh*les who do not *get* golf.

The worst ones are those who took up the game later in life and were never junior golfers.

One of the nice things about Olympic is that although we have lost our intimacy, there is still a large number of us who played together there as juniors and are still friends in middle age.

It cost me $60 to join at age 14, $10 a month and $1.50 for  a locker in the junior room.

When I turned 21, they prorated the initiation fee back to the level seven years before. 10 years to pay it off, no interest.

Oh, and the club employed a two-tier monthy fee structure so nobody pays the full ticket until age 30.

Because of this, the list of great professional and amateur players produced by the club is long.

Maybe it is time to revisit Redan Hills . . . . .        

[john_stiles]

Knoxville Tennessee has three First Tee program courses !

I have only been to the Williams Creek course.  It is an 18 hole, par 3 course with interesting greens.

A youth Caddie program could not probably work anywhere in Knoxville for many of the same reasons mentioned above.

First Tee will hopefully succeed where there was otherwise no chance for many to learn. The First Tee courses even allow others to join and play at nominal fees (adult/$600 per year).

[Lester George]

Forrest,

I have designed about six First Tee Facilities across the country, built 3.  

Longest is First Tee Chesterfield here in Richmond which has 18 holes at 4750 yards, par 66, three hole tot loop for little kids, 56 yards, 93 yards, 79 yards.  You would be surprised how much it gets used.  Cost 2 millon for the course, 2 million for the rest, everything raised locally.

Also did one in Downtown Richmond on a landfill.  3 adult holes, 3 tot holes.  Cost 1.5 million, mostly because of landfill requirements.  Opened last year by President Bush (sr) as the 100th facility in the US.

Call me if you want to know specifics.

Lester

[Jim_Kennedy]

We can choose to view a program like The First Tee in a way that fits our personal agendas or choose to see it in the light of its accomplishments.
As of Feb. 14th, 2004, The First Tee has introduced golf to over 300,000 kids, developed almost 150 learning facilities,  affiliated itself with over 330 existing courses and done all this, really, in 4 years time.  

Gib, you'd like to see ...."some statistics comparing dollar expenditures to how many kids take up golf and STICK WITH IT because of the First Tee program."
Don't you think that it would be fair to give this program a bit more time, say another 4 years or so, before trying to quantify young player retention?

This is not just about golf but also about TFT's developing and instilling some of the same values that are necessary to a productive life, such as: honesty, integrity, sportsmanship, respect, confidence, responsibility, perserverance, courtesy and judgement. It's also about empowerment. Teach  youngsters these values and you'll get more stable and solid future citizens who won't feel the need to lash back because they won't consider themselves undervalued. They might even hop the subway, take the train and walk the last mile or two to a golf course near you so they can earn some respectable cash carrying bags. Or they might just get a summer job in the stockroom of a local plumbing supply company near here and make $10.78 an hour.

And what about the money spent? I think it's too early to tell either way but if this program positively impacts the lives of even 1% of its participants it's worth the expenditures. Think of the future costs of the alternatives.

[Forrest Richardson]

Gib says, "I would like to see some statistics comparing dollar expenditures to how many kids take up golf and STICK WITH IT because of the First Tee program."

I'd add, Gib, that this may not be possible until around 2010. But....for certain, the FT program by that time will far outshine any other movement in terms of decade-long results!

- - -

Lester — We did a small loop for kids in Utah, but it was not sanctioned as a First Tee. When another project comes up, I'll get with you as it would be neat to see some of the courses and budgets. Thanks

[michael j fay]

Two course that have missed the radar are the modetls for the First Tee Program:

The Little Course at Aspen Grove in Nashville, TN, which was funded by the Tennessee Golf Association (with more than generous assistance from Jack Lupton of Honor's Course fame)
was probably the very first statewide successful junior program. It has been administered by Dick Horton of the Tennessee Golf Association. The Tennessee PGA drafts it's members to give 1 week a year to teaching at the facility which includes housing for the juniors. Each year Vince Gill holds a huge fundraiser to assist the program. Truly, this is an example of a State getting behind a great idea.

The Buttonhole project in Lincoln, Rhode Island is a wonderful little course placed in an area where the inner city kids can walk or ride their bikes . This program was championed by one of the best, Ed Mauro, who has spent the last 5 years of his life raising the cash and grooming the ground.

The USGA has given to Buttonhole in a big way.

I'm not sure that these programs have had the impact that was desired. I cannot help but think that earmarking money for these programs is better than building new juvenile detention centers.