[Peter_Collins]

In the thread about Dick Wilson not being a member of ASGCA the Wilson v. Jones rivalry was mentioned in passing.  
I recalled reading about the feud in an old Sports Illustrated inherited from my father in law.  Can you imagine this type of candor today?

Jones on Wilson:
"Wilson is a fine architect, but he tends to mimic a bit too much.  He uses some holes over and over again, and he builds too many doglegs.  On some courses he'll dogleg 14 of the 18 holes."

"Wilson copies a lot of our ideas. The long tees, the flanked trapping.  We got a lot of fun out of this last year when we were putting in the Country Club of Miami and Wilson was near by building Doral.  He'd come over to our course, take a look at some of the things we were doing, then run back and put the same things in at Doral.  And another thing, I could design a course that everyone would think had been done by Wilson, but he couldn't ever build a Jones course."

Wilson on Jones:
"Jones is a nice fella and a good friend of mine.  But as far his work is concerned, I think he gives an impression of too many straight lines.  Straight lines are something you want to get away from."

Wilson on Jones' comments about Doral:
"For heaven's sake!  If I'd wanted to copy anything I'd have picked a better course than the Country Club of Miami.  I never copied a golf hole in my life, even one of my own.  Besides, Jones' work is too much on the artificial, manufactured side to suit me.  It doesn't fit the ground as well as it should because he hasn't made enough effort to fit it.  Even from the very first his work never showed this effort.  Look at it like this.  You can put a beautiful woman in an expensive dress, but if the dress doesn't fit, neither the woman nor the dress is going to look any good at all.  It's the same with building a golf course.  You got to cut the course to fit the property."

Jones on Jones (responding to allegations he took on too much work):
"Nonsense, I could take on three times the work I do now.  Just look at my courses.  They are all great."

Sports Illustrated Vol 17 No. 1 July 2, 1962 p. 22-28 "Golf's Battling Architects"

[BCrosby]

Peter -

Thanks for posting the excerpts. Wonderful stuff. I don't know why this didn't get a response.

Personally, the exchange makes RTJ sound less appealing than even this RTJ-phobe imagined he was.

Bob

[Bob_Huntley]

BCrosby,

It would seem that to me that RTJones Snr., had the same sort of outlook on life as did Frank Lloyd Wright, who wrote in his autobiography as follows;

"Early in life I had to choose between honest arrogance and hypocritical humilty. I chose honest arrogance and have seen no occasion to change."

[TEPaul]

Bob Huntley;

I love that Frank Lloyd Wright quote!

Dick Wilson said;

“I never copied a golf hole in my life, even one of my own.”

As good as Dick was, and he was good, a remark like that can only be attributed to, to, to, what’s a nice way to say this?---to blackouts, something Dick, as good as he was in architecture was prone to more than most serious imbibers. It’s a philosophy of mine to offer a flask to any architect who promises to use it in the field to enhance imagination, creativity and avoid the humdrum and the formulaic that the completely sober mind seems to foster too often! But if I could have I never would’ve offered one to Dick Wilson---he was way beyond that---miles ahead and around the corner from even Tillie and such. I think Dick just brought his bottle with him wherever he went!

[BCrosby]

Bob -

An apt quote - with the caveat that Wright had earned the right to arrogance. He was a man of extraordinary talent.

RTJ was merely arrogant. And in the quotations given, quite possibly defamed (in the legal, actionable sense) Wilson.

Bob    

[Jeff_Brauer]

TEPaul,

I have heard your architects/driinking theory before.  Seriously speaking, if I had had the opportunities that Dick Wilson did, I would be drunk on those, and wouldn't need the bottle.  

Frankly, (and I know you are at least half joking) I think clients would be better off with someone who was sincerely excited/interested in their possibilities, and not just the possibility of being drunk before noon......

[TEPaul]

JeffB;

You're only wrong about one thing. I'm a lot more than just half joking! I would like you to confirm the truth of one thing though. Don't you think that most people think they're smarter when they have a pretty good toot on than they think they are when they're stone cold sober?

[paul cowley]

...i agree jeff.....one has ample opportunity in the 'twilight' zone.

...btw TP ,wayne asked me to remind you about the BOOK
   [ such a great word,i even enjoy looking at it ] [and quietly mouthing it mantra like ]..........

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