How much does bunker depth influence your play ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Doug Siebert,

Would you say that it's almost impossible, or highly unlikely to have a deep bunker without having a steep bunker ?

[A_Clay_Man]

Pat- Not nearly impossible. Pete Galea has a gentleman on his crew, who has the ability to create the deep feel without having to replace sand every so often. Specifically the 14th hole at Pajaro Valley's front right bunker.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Adam Clayman,

How do you create a deep bunker, without having steep slopes unless you have a vast funnel, which is impractical.

[Bill Gayne]

I'm more concerned with green side bunkers than fairway bunkers. The margin of error on the ensuing bunker shot and the ability to subsequently save par or salvage bogey is much greater out of a fairway bunker. The strength of my game being iron play.

With the green side bunker the shot out of the bunker needs to be very good or else it puts pressure on the weakest part of my game, putting.

The angle of the green side bunker is also a big factor. A hole that I routinely play has a very deep and steep bunker in front of a green that slopes back to front. Behind the green is a shallow bunker that slopes back to front. I will always err on the short side and being in the front bunker. A down slope bunker shot to a green that is sloping away from me is the shot that I dread. Whereas an upsloping bunker shot, even a deep bunker, to a green that is sloped front to back is okay.

[Doug Siebert]

Patrick,

Quite easy to create a deep bunker that's not a steep bunker.  Its all about size.  You can have a bunker that's 4 feet deep that's only 10 feet in diameter and it'll be a challenge to escape from.  If you create a bunker that's 60 feet in diameter, it can be 10 feet deep and have a much more gentle slope than the little 4 foot deep pot bunker.

I'll have a pretty easy time from the gently sloped 10 feet deep bunker.  While it looks threatening to the higher handicappers who are already paralyzed by fear by virtue of being in any bunker, the only problem it presents from a better player is that you can only see the top of the flagstick and don't have the easy feel of how far you have to hit it.  You have to make a mental picture before you climb down and try to hold it in your mind before you shoot.

I think a lot of these get created because some architects confuse deep with steep, or want something that looks impressive without actually risking medal rounds for the pros they always dream will be playing their latest creation.  My home course is littered with them, I think there are five that are well over 10 feet from bunker base to nearest green surface, and plenty more that are over 5 feet.  But there's not one bunker on the course where you will ever take two to escape unless you are very unlucky with where in the bunker you end up or just plain hit a bad shot.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Doug Siebert,

It may not be that easy to create a deep bunker that doesn't play steep

Size can be constrained by the architect's desire for continuity.  It would seem unusual for an architect to avoid steepness by greatly expanding the size of a bunker if the balance of the golf course has a bunker style that conflicts with that concept.

Steepness, from the perspective of playability can be a function of the ball's proximity to the bunker wall.   As a ball is moved away from the wall the impact of steepness can diminish.

But, depth requires that the extracating shot have a high trajectory, steepness may accentuate that need, but that's based on the balls location relative to the bunker wall.

A more confined bunker, such as the DA at PV or the bunker fronting # 7 at NGLA will, in the great majority of cases, force the golfer to confront steepness and depth.

The VAST far size bunker on # 7 at NGLA is also very deep, probably deeper then the pot bunker, and the walls fronting the green are very steep.  Even if your ball is not close to the bunker wall, because of the narrow green, especially in front, the shot plays steep, no matter how far back from the bunker wall your ball lies.

The right greenside bunker at # 3 at NGLA is big and no matter where your ball lies within its confines, it plays steep when the pin is on the right side of that green.

The bunkers you and I are talking about are greenside bunkers, and LOB wedges have softened their bite.

Deep fairway bunkers present their own problems and I would avoid them at all costs.  Which leads to the question, are deep fairway bunkers usually confined to short holes, or bunkers that are located at relatively short distances from the green ?

[Doug Siebert]

Well, I certainly don't see deep fairway bunkers on longer par 4s or par 5s very often, at least in the US.  Heaven forbid a golfer actually be penalized for finding a bunker and be unable to reach the green in two (or worse, unable to reach it in three on a par 5!)

I agree with what you say about the architectural constraints, but creating a deep bunker that isn't steep just needs an elevated green.  You can cut the slope in the bunker differently from the slope used to push up the green, and the base of the bunker is still well below the green surface, but the slope is fairly gentle.  Your point is well taken that the shot still requires a fair bit of loft, but since this sort of bunker would naturally tend to have the player playing his shot from an upslope, the difficulty is reduced.  Too bad my course is closed (regrassing) or I could post a few pictures to illustrate what I'm trying to explain.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Doug Siebert,

I wonder if anyone has a picture of the old fairway bunker on
# 17 at The Medalist.

Unfortunately, it's been reconfigured and is now a greenside bunker, but, it was massive, deep and steep.

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