Jim Engh's version of Stonehenge; #12 at Fossil Trace GC

[Brad Swanson]

Last summer I posted a review of the front 9 of Jim Engh's Fossil Trace GC, Golden, CO's new municipal golf course designed by Jim Engh (#2 on some golf rag's list as best new affordable public behind Black Mesa).  I never got around to posting the review of the back 9, but thought I'd share a most unusual/unique? par 5 from the back nine.  

The 12th hole at Fossil Trace is the course's most recognizable hole.  At 585 yds from the tips, its not long (considering the mile high elevation).  The hole plays though a number of very large sandstone pillars with the green being tucked in a nook of several of these pillars.


From the tee, you can see a few of these pillars dotting the fairway.


The landing area gives you absolutely no indication of where the green is .  Its somewhere in the vacinity of the small nook between the leftmost rock formation in the pic and the next one to its right (aim towards the subdivision in the distance, the essence of public golf in Denver )


Here's what you are left with after a successful lay-up.  I was not so fortunate on my attempt of going for it in 2 as you'll see in a picture below.


A closer shot of the green shows that it is surrounded on the back, left and right by sandstone pillars, and guarded in front by a Jim Engh-style gash bunker.


Here we see some hack hitting 5 out of the trap.  This fool thought he was sitting pretty, having hit his 4 iron 2nd shot right where his playing partner told him to hit it (this was the hack/fool's first round at Fossil Trace and his partner had been around a few times).  Unfortunately he found himself on the wrong side of the large wall you see to the left in the picture and faced a difficult third shown below.  Those course workers on the golf cart in the shade by the split rail fence at the right side of the picture are blocking the entrance to the mini fossil museum to the left of the 12th fairway/green.  Several dinosaur and old plant fossils were found during course construction causing a lengthy delay in the completion of the course.


I thought about addding this pic to the "you know you're in trouble..." post from last year, but it required too much context.


Cheers,
Brad Swanson

[Tom_Doak]

Brad,

Have I gotten all turned around in your pictures, or is that cart path about 50 yards short of the green right across the fairway?

If so, that would be unfortunate.

[SPDB]

I like the concept, but imagine that its novelty would wear off after my second time playing it. Novelty without substance is a waste of time..

[SPDB]

KBM (using initials is posh)

i'm a fan of any centerline or fairway hazard that dictates strategy. these rocks undeniably dictate strategy in the lay up. The obvious difference is that if you end up behind one you might have to play sideways. Who cares? thats your penalty for hitting a poor shot, the same strategy and same potential results exist elsewhere (e.g. Hell Bunker), and at what i'm estimating is a height of 15 feet, they probably aren't terribly difficult to go over.

I only said I liked this as a novelty, not as an enduring design/strategy concept

[Mike_Sweeney]

Kelly,

My wife walked by the PC this morning and thought it was "cool", so at least it has that going for it. Here are pictures from Shaker Hills in Harvard, MA. Played it a few years ago, the 18th a 460 downhill hole has some lower profile rock outcroppins:

[David_Elvins]

Brad,

thanks for the "interesting" photos.

Do you know if the rock out crops have to be left alone for environmental reasons or were they fashioned that way?

I have got to say that I am more offended by those two bunkers than the rocks.  

[Tom Ferrell]

The limestone fins at Fossil Trace had to be preserved for geologic/archeologic value.  A fin adjacent to the 12th green actually has visible fern and dinosaur footprint fossils.  It's really very cool.  This is quirky architecture at its best.  The property for Fossil Trace is difficult - it was acquired in three or four separate purchases, and the holes generally reflect the quality of the property.  I love 7, 8, 11, 12(!) and 14.  The views and unique nature of the course alone make it an interesting day.  Not sure I'd want a steady diet, but...

Can someone tell me how to post a photo?  I've got a good one of the approach to the 12th.

TOM

[SPDB]

Mike - Don't forget about TCC #11 (Open 9)

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I like Jim Engh the person, but if I didn't object to this style of bunkering, then I wouldn't be holding my line very well on Rees Jones and his distinctive and unique style. (Please bare with me, trying to sound like Mike Cirba in this post)

The only thing missing is some sort of ancient Native American/caveman art on those sandstone walls, depicting some sort of lost ancient art called Golf Course Architecture and how it does not exist in this area of Colorado.

But we all know how you can't judge things by looking at  pictures.

[Mike_Cirba]

Tommy;

I rate your attempt to emulate my style of being sharply critical while remaining diplomatic enough to not offend anyone a "C-", at best.  

I'm signing you up for the "Neville Chamberlain School of Political Correctness", pronto.  

[Mike_Cirba]

Tommy;

Try this instead;  

Jim Engh is obviously a very creative guy who has earned his share of laurels, but I still have a problem with the fact that his feature shaping does not lend itself well to blending with natural contours and he too often presents a singular look in a varied world.  In other words, his bunkering and greensite shaping looks transported from one site to another, whether the course is in the rugged Colorado hills, the deserts of New Mexico, or the woods of Michigan.

In this case, an attempt to stretch the envelope and create something unique seems to be lacking certain functional practicalities.  Golf and something approximating "boulder bumper pool" are hardly compatible bedmates and should only be mixed with extreme caution.        

[Michael Moore]

Mr. Moran -

TCC stands for "The Country Club", as in their little sign that reads

The Country Club
A.D. 1882

I am on an anti-abbreviation crusade for this site, so keep questioning this practice!

[A_Clay_Man]

I don't know about anybody else, but I would be hard pressed NOT to hit one off the wall to the left, on approach (if I were left), for the ricochet. Placing my own rock carvings in the circular upon circular form.

Looks like a lay-up to the right side (not behind wall) would ease the next, considering the angle of the green.

How'm I doin', Brad?

As for the shape of the bunker, I would not be so fast as to say that they don't fit in. Having lived in this area of the country, now, almost anything goes because there is so much going on around you.

I also don't see the problem with the rock obstacles. They are natural, recoverable and unpredictable. As a concept that is not going against the core, only accepted norms.

[Brad Swanson]

Tom D:
   You are correct, the cartpath does cross the fairway not too far short of the green.

TomF is correct in commenting on the difficulty of this site (especially the back 9).  Time permitting I'll post some photos of a few other interesting holes from the back 9.

Adam:
   Laying up right is preferred, but one still must be careful because there are a few pillars in the middle of the fairway that could stymie you if you are too close to them, unless its you we're talking about.  I'm sure you could fashion some type of billiards-style shot off any number of the rock formations to access the green from any position.

Cheers,
Brad Swanson

[Matt_Ward]

Be most curious as to how many people have ACTUALLY played the course?

I played it last year and thought the work by Jim Engh was quite good. This is a town owned course (Golden) and although the cart path crossing in front of the green (a full 50 yards mind you) and is likely out of range for most players the golf course is well done given the tight amount of acreage available and how neatly done the rocks work when you PLAY the hole. Players who take the required line to play the hole will have little worry about. I tried to go for the green in two and it's only then that you have to concern yourself with the rocks that hang close to the left side.

You see -- I'm a bit old-fashioned in that regard -- people need to play the hole(s) / courses before barking it doesn't work.

P.S. If there is one hole that's really lame at Fossil Trace
it's the non-descript par-3 5th hole -- here you have a hole that's barely beyond 100 yards and the green is soooooo
big with no real obstacles to overcome. Clearly, IMHO, an
un-Engh hole.

[Mike_Cirba]

I also don't see the problem with the rock obstacles. They are natural, recoverable and unpredictable. As a concept that is not going against the core, only accepted norms.

Adam;

Philosophically, that would seem to make sense and I find myself mentally agreeing with your statement.

Then, I look at the pictures again and my gut says, "No F@*@)ing way!  

Why?  Because I think they are being used for effect, for show, for grandiosity, and for photo-ops more than for realistic golf options.  

The are a liability lawyer's wet dream.      

Matt;

How "neatly can rocks work" when used on a golf course?  

[ForkaB]

Mr. Moore

Don't you mean "Anno Domini", or are you just giving TCC a pass?

[Matt_Ward]

Rich:

Good question -- how bout mine to you ...

How neatly do roads work on golf courses? Or railroad lines that parallel holes? Get my drift.

The hole at Fossil Trace has rocks that really should not impact anyone playing the hole in a correct manner. How do I know? I played the course and watched a number of groups actually play the hole to see how they handled it. Pictures show one thing -- playing the hole proves otherwise IMHO.

[A_Clay_Man]

Mike- I think it's all to easy to dismis "new" features. Don't we wish people had questioned the over use of tree traps?

 I know nothing about the hole or course, save for what's on this thread, but since Matt eluded to the space constraints, what Engh did here, looks more like lemonade from lemons. What's the alternative? Blow them up and haul away the debris. At a huge price, no doubt.

If I were a lawyer, I would be salavating to take on the argument that there is no expectation of safety, while on or near a golf course.

[Brad Swanson]

   I largely agree with Matt that the rocks shouldn't impact anyone that plays the hole correctly AND has prior knowledge to where the green is (imperative if you go at it in 2 and also important to know where to lay-up).  Personally, I'm not crazy about the hole, but I won't dismiss it because of the gimmick factor either.
   As far as judging the course as a whole its a fun course to play, although a little bland in the later holes of the front nine.  My only issue is that its priced a little high relative to similar offerings in the metro area ($50 vs less than $40 for Riverdale Dunes, Green Valley Ranch, and a number of others).  I give Jim Engh credit for taking what is in all fairness a big sour lemon of a parcel of land and turnng it into lemonade for the citizens of Golden that didn't have much in the way of local public golf.  Now I realize that that is usually not the criteria that 90%+ of the discourse here involves.  Many people here have the difficult decision of which top 100 course they are going to play that week, but there are some of us here who have to decide if we can splurge that extra $10/20 for our bi-monthly round of golf at a new and unique course.  Although I'm not head over heels crazy about Fossil Trace, its a welcome addition to my semi-regular rotation of "home courses" here in the metro Denver area.


Cheers,
Brad Swanson

[Brad Swanson]

Adam,
   Great minds think alike (re: our crossed-posts)

Cheers,
Brad

[Mike_Sweeney]

Why?  Because I think they are being used for effect, for show, for grandiosity, and for photo-ops more than for realistic golf options.  

Mike C,

How is this hole different from the 16th at Merion? I am not talking about the details of cart paths, bunker shapes, mowing patterns...., but rather the basic premise to incorporate the rocks, same as Hugh Wilson incorporated the Quarry at Merion. According to Mr Ward, it is a tight property similar to Merion, so he did not have too much wiggle room. Moving them would be extremely costly, especially for a municipal course. They seem to create strategy and options from the pictures. Doesn't Merion sell a few pictures of the 16th?

[Mike_Cirba]

Mike;

The difference is simply that the quarry at Merion is not going to functionally act like Dikembe Motumbo in the playing of golf.  

Some features work, others don't.

Call me hypocritical.  The railway sheds on the Road Hole work...so does the road.  

Rock pillars are better for Biblical Hollywood epics than golf....I don't know why except that I know all of us would decry groupings of "natural", mature trees in those same spots, right??

[Matt_Ward]

Kelly:

Nice touch witht he Jupiter analogy -- but it's a big time stretch. I'm talking from firsthand experience in having played the hole -- not just from photos that only show certain angles.

Truth be told -- would you appreciate your work dissected simply from observations from photos, thirdhand accounts and other non-play comments? Few architects that I know do. Kelly I know of people on GCA who have made comments about Laurel Links on Long Island simply from photos -- does that show real analysis without having played the course? You may be a bit more tolerant.

In my mind -- the hole and the position of the rocks works quite well. I don't doubt there's an issue with the cart path but it crosses far enough away from the hole for most players to not be the issue that some have raised.

Kelly, I may be "off base" but let's be clear -- being there to have an opinion always beats opinions from the comfort of one's living room couch. What you may think in theory I was able to examine by actually playing the hole. That's a big time difference. I may be wrong -- no doubt -- but the only sure way to disprove me is to play the hole and see it firsthand.

When people actually play the hole -- then -- and only
then -- do they offer for me the wherewithal to say if such a situation is a gimmick / out-of-place. I don't minimize your opinion or those of others who think the hole doesn't work but I don't give it the level of credibility because playing the hole is really where the rubber meets the road for me.

Brad S:

If you're talking price Fossil Trace is heads and shoulders a better alternative than plenty of the places that dot the front range. I do agree with you -- hats off to Golden for getting a golf course for the town.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Matt,

 My son just finished a school project on Jupiter and he wrote about 7 pages on al the things he learned and liked about it, but he never actually visited there, that I know of, and some of his comments were based upon photographs, probably taken by you, since you seem to be everywhere!

Kelly,

That was a good one !

MikeC,

There was some discussion about the short Par 4 15th @ Kinloch in the past. I liked the trees in the fairway. The narrow inside the corner route gave you a shot at the green, the right/safe side made it a 2 shot hole.



PS. I played it for all of those GCA cops out there !