Sleepy Hollow 16 (and what happens when you foozle)

[Neil Regan]

Sleepy Hollow #16, above the Hudson River:








and what happens when you foozle:[/color]

[Evan Fleisher]

Is that front grass depression just that, or a former bunker?

[Mike Hendren]

From the children's table, the bunkers look, eghad - modern, and superfluous (note I did not say eye-candy).  Are ya'll given the Dead Guys a pass here or what?  With death apparently long (what can one really tell from a photo) why visually help the player take enough club?

Do the front bunker lips hide the front of the putting surface or are they flush.  I really like the former.

Venturi:  "How's it look down there Rossie?"

Rosburg:  "He's got no chance, Kenny."

Mike

[frank_D]

BEWARE OF THE HEADLESS HORSEMAN !

[Robert Kimball]

Just FYI: Here is Scott's AOTD on Sleepy Hollow

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=3142

[Mike Hendren]

Thanks for the link, Rob.  My apologies to the Dead Guys - it all makes sense now!  I'd love a pic of the original.

Mike

[RJ_Daley]

I have to think this was originally CB-Raynor version of the short hole.  I also have to think that the CB-Raynor theme holes were first drastically altered by Tillie, and then obliterated by Jones.  The aerial pretty much shows nothing left of the CB-Raynor traditional holes, IMO.  I'll bet that the huge green seen above had a soap dish and great contours designed by CB-Seth to be flattened in remodelling.  I think the bunkers are eye candy with Jones fingerprints all over them.  But, I could be wrong.

[Neil Regan]

My picture doesn't show it very well, but the green does have some serious breaks on it.

[corey miller]

RJ- I think you are right and wrong on this one.  I hope some day that I can show you in person.  I suspect all the greens are still Macdonald/Tillie.  Rees just improved the visuals and in some instances playability of the course with his wonderful bunkering.

This is the original Mac "short hole" SH #16  The original tee was about 30 yards forward with the shot across the gorge.  This tee can be seen in a few of the posted photos.  This is a wonderful green, It is almost an inverted saucer which affectively plays about 1/2 the size.  Still a difficult up and down but years ago It was very very very difficult.  I suspect an CBM original.  The grass bunker was a Rees attempt, It wound up looking like Mickey Mouse.

At the top of the photo is a biarritz hole of about 210 playing downhill to another untouched green though it has really shrunk in size.  Also the bunkering has shrunk and is clearly evident in person.  The swale is not visible but it is fairway length and is at the base of the giant hill. This hole is now on the par 32 lower course.

SH #3 can be seen in the woods near 16 heading se in the picture.  This hole plays across the gorge also.  I believe G. Bahto recognized this as an EDEN hole. (of course with Rees touches).  This green seems to be Tillie to my eye.

SH #7 which is just above the white cut-out in the photo is a reverse redan of 210 yards which plays down a significant hill.  This hole still works pretty well and I suspect this green has not been touched.

Still a very fun place to play, the course has really good bones.

[Neil Regan]

Here is Scott's aerial. (Thanks, Rob, for tracking it down.)

[corey miller]

I have two old photos in email form showing different iterations of this hole.  courtesy of Paul Turner.  If someone knows how to post them.

[RJ_Daley]

Hi Corey, so when did Rees ply his trade and remodel?  C&W have the old man doing his remodelling in 1966.  

Wasn't one of the most egregious things done to CB-Raynor style bunkering the segmentation of them?  I can almost visualise this "short" hole with a front bunker all the way across the front like so many others of their traditional short designs.  Maybe even a more squared off green and long bunkers to the sides.  Is it possible that the original hole only had three long green side flattish bunkers with turfed walls up to the putting surface?  

The aerial has the NADER and Biarritz still readily identifiable.  But, where are the mid- and encroaching fairway diagonal bunkers one would normally expect to see on levens, strategy and bottle type holes?  Is one of the holes thought to be a "road hole"?

[Neil Regan]

old pictures, from Paul via Corey

[RJ_Daley]

Ah hah, an island short hole with a very distinctive soap dish!!!  I wasn't too far off in speculation about the original look.  Talk about segmentation of bunkers...

PS:  I just went back to read Bahto's book pages 154-57 and now have the proper understanding of what all took place thee, thanks to uncle George

[Mike_Cirba]

The modern bunkers look like "Pod People".  

Are you sure those things can't reproduce?

[Jim_Bick]

This hole is one of the best examples of how appearances (photo, video and even in person) can be very deceiving, in terms of the setting. Standing on the tee it looks like there is a small wooded area between the hole and the Hudson. The USGA even uses such a shot in one of their commercials. The fact, as shown in the aerial,(upper right center) is that you have the 17th fairway, and the short course behind it. Not shown in the aerial is Route 9 and a sizeable residential neighborhood beyond.

Not exactly death long, although it looks that way. I haven't seen the course since the new bunkering.

[frank_D]

re routing:
judging from the aerial i would say the ninth hole is furthest from the clubhouse than on any other US course - which is one reason i think this layout is most unusually original  - ten through eighteen are literally the INcomming holes

[although i see in the book illustration the ninth is another hole - the nineth i'm refering to above was the layout used by the usga womens amatuer in 2001]