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Ran Morrissett

Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« on: March 15, 2004, 10:50:41 AM »
Thanks to the generosity of those individuals presently listed in the Contributions section as well as those from years gone past, this web site runs commercial free. As such, we have no pressure to maximize the number of page views etc. The only 'pressure'  is to make GolfClubAtlas.com as meaningful a web site as possible.

To that end, and based on the personal attacks and anonymous posts where a sincere poster gets flamed by not saying the politically correct thing, changes are going to be made to the Discussion Group within the next 30 days. No one wants to see this DG erode and inadvertently be allowed to drift toward a lower common denominator as good posters lose interest in wading through the muck.

As a start, no one will be able to register after the end of this week, and this will remain so for the next 30-45 days. The number of people who can post will be capped at 1,000 (presently there are over 2,500 'members' or people who can post). If you aren't comfortable posting under your own name and are registered as Odd Job or Three Putt or Big Bertha or whatever, you can change that name to your name before the end of the March. Otherwise, starting next month, I will be deleting those who have registered under something other than your own name. (And if your real name happens to be Three Putt, well, life has been cruel and not being able to post on GCA.com is the least of your worries :)). Next, 80-90% of the registered people who have never made a post will be deleted, to make room for people who do want to share their thoughts re: golf course architecture. Also, people have used this site to network their way onto courses and once there, have made fools of themselves (not reimbursing the host, throwing golf clubs, etc.) - they're gone, as are posters more obsessed with proving how witty they are rather than focusing on the subject at hand: golf course architecture.

On the surface, these changes may seem a lot but in reality, they aren't - this DG is rarity on the internet of civil discourse 90% plus of the time. The laissez-faire approach of the first five years in managing the DG has worked great and it only needs a tune up.

Everyone will always be able to follow the DG;  not everyone will be able to post. The crucial attributes of the ultimate 1,000 posters will be that a) they are interested in articulating their thoughts on golf course architecture and perhaps contribute an In My Opinion or My Home Course entry from time to time, b) as a set, they have a WIDE variety of opinions, c) they are civil and d) they are geographically diverse (perhaps ~600 members or posters in the U.S. and ~400 international members would be wonderful as being a U.S.-centric site was never a goal). The number of people who can post may expand past 1,000 over time once we have a solid core but that day is a long ways off. In the meanwhile, the random cheap shots and gutless posts under alias names will be diminished by Masters weekend.

The sole purpose of the web site is to be a meaningful place for people to gather and discuss/learn about golf course architecture (with a most gratifying result being the number of friendships formed through this site). In no way are these measures meant to hamper or lessen the discourse on golf architecture. In fact, these actions are meant to ENCOURAGE a freer form of discussion, thanks to an absence of throwaway cheap shots and insults. I am aware of numerous posters/lurkers who will rejoin/join the fray once these changes are in place.

Though there may be a few slight negatives in having people post under their own name, the positives far outweigh the negatives at this point. By taking this step, hopefully this web site will continue on its way to realizing its maximum potential.

Cheers,

THuckaby2

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2004, 11:03:44 AM »
Ran - makes great sense to me - keep up the wonderful work and again, many thanks for all of this.

Tom Huckaby
« Last Edit: March 15, 2004, 11:04:01 AM by Tom Huckaby »

Carlyle Rood

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2004, 11:03:59 AM »
I think these are all excellent changes.

Slider8

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2004, 11:13:35 AM »
Ran,

I don't mean to be overly critical here, but if you eliminate the use of "screen names" and mandate the use of "legal names", you may face a compromise in the OTHER direction (not the flamers) but the guys who have the access and knowledge of some pretty private courses. Simply stated, and as an example only, were I a member of Augusta National, and there were a thread on here about it, I would be VERY hesitant to make a post to clarify an error, or other such thing if I had to use my real name, therefore now outing myself as an Augusta member, not to mention, if it were sensetive (not top secret) information, I would now have also "outed" myself to the club, therefore running the risk of being ejected.

The same may also be true for people to try to gain even MORE access to difficult courses by knowing the names and associating the memberships those people carry.  All it takes is one "lurker" to start keeping a spreadsheet of names and associated clubs, next thing you know Joe Bob Hacker is calling me and saying "hey pal, i'm in Augusta and want to play the National.  Not that one would allow him to play, but just being bothered by this is worriesome.

Perhaps a better solution would be to get "registered screen names", therefore, allowing those who wish to remain hidden to the general public, would somehow be screened (and known) by Ran and / or the staff?

Perhaps some may view the above as being "paranoid".  While I can see your side, you also have to ask yourself why so many posters use "screen names"?

Carlyle Rood

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2004, 11:16:31 AM »
Simply stated, and as an example only, were I a member of Augusta National, and there were a thread on here about it, I would be VERY hesitant to make a post to clarify an error, or other such thing if I had to use my real name, therefore now outing myself as an Augusta member, not to mention, if it were sensetive (not top secret) information, I would now have also "outed" myself to the club, therefore running the risk of being ejected.

Ran will make an exception for all members of Augusta National.   ;D
« Last Edit: March 15, 2004, 11:16:45 AM by Carlyle Rood »

Joe Hancock

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2004, 11:17:21 AM »


 as are posters more obsessed with proving how witty they are rather than focusing on the subject at hand: golf course architecture.



Uh oh....this will require great restraint! I agree with the changes, BTW!

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

A_Clay_Man

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2004, 11:46:38 AM »
Open discourse is healthy and is core. If a person can't stand-up to the words that come out of their mouth, they should re-consider posting them. Even if it means risking their memberships.

Bravo! The new cruelty is working. Did I just read an article about a Florida course that has placed 23 individuals on the black list? Maybe cruelty is the wrong tag,  maybe it should show respect for the Man, the Robert Tyre Jones phase, of gca.com?

noonan

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2004, 11:53:57 AM »
I agree with Ran.

Golf and this forum should rid itself of miscreants.

JK

James Edwards

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2004, 12:05:21 PM »
Ran,

Congratulations on this forum..  I agree with the subtle changes..  RStG still awaits that challenge game.

Formerly J.J.S.E (my initials)
@EDI__ADI

NAF

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2004, 12:06:51 PM »
well the NAFFER is now my full name too!

Scott_Burroughs

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2004, 12:07:07 PM »
Adam and Joe,

Step up and put your real name on board before it is too late...we would hate to lose you.

They have been posting under their real names (first initial and last names, though Adam's is disjointed) for their entire times on the board.  Many guys here post in that same form (including Doyen #1).  More than some can say.

Lou_Duran

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2004, 12:13:27 PM »
Ran,

Slider8 says "Perhaps a better solution would be to get "registered screen names", therefore, allowing those who wish to remain hidden to the general public, would somehow be screened (and known) by Ran and / or the staff?"

As we discussed, I too have similar concerns, though not for the reasons noted (access issues to golf courses can be dealt with quite easily, ranging from not responding to requests to doing everything possible to help if one is so inclined to do so).  I can see that there are times when someone may wish to say something useful and constructive without being identified directly on the record.

On the same token, there are time issues associated with administering this site, and perhaps the consequences of these are greater than the valuable contributions that may be lost by requiring a proper, verifyable name/registration.  As a possibility, there may be some on this site who could help in relieving some of this load (myself included).

The bottom line is that while I see the need for and support the general thrust of these changes, I would hope that these could be accomplished without chasing off some very valuable contributors.  A small electronic index of registered pseudonyms for those who have the need may be a good way to go.  That's my two cents worth, and probably that is what's worth.  

BCrosby

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2004, 12:19:28 PM »
I agree with Slider8's concerns.

I would suggest that real names be used unless a poster can convince Ran that a screen name is appropriate or necessary. The presumption should be to use real names whenever possible.  

But there may be limited situations where a screen name makes sense. I would hate to lose the input of "insiders" who are uncomforatble using real names.

Ran should have full and complete discretion to permit screen names, be accountable to no one for his decisions and entitled to change his mind about particular posters at any time.

It's his show.

Bob
« Last Edit: March 15, 2004, 12:21:36 PM by BCrosby »

james soper

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2004, 12:23:48 PM »
great changes ran. hopefully civility will follow.
cheers,  james soper (formerly medalist).

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2004, 12:24:44 PM »
Slider8,
I don't mean to be overly critical here, but if you eliminate the use of "screen names" and mandate the use of "legal names", you may face a compromise in the OTHER direction (not the flamers) but the guys who have the access and knowledge of some pretty private courses. Simply stated, and as an example only, were I a member of Augusta National, and there were a thread on here about it, I would be VERY hesitant to make a post to clarify an error, or other such thing if I had to use my real name, therefore now outing myself as an Augusta member, not to mention, if it were sensetive (not top secret) information, I would now have also "outed" myself to the club, therefore running the risk of being ejected.

This is true, I've experienced it first hand, but, I'm sure that you'll come up with a solution to get your point across.

The same may also be true for people to try to gain even MORE access to difficult courses by knowing the names and associating the memberships those people carry.  All it takes is one "lurker" to start keeping a spreadsheet of names and associated clubs, next thing you know Joe Bob Hacker is calling me and saying "hey pal, i'm in Augusta and want to play the National.  Not that one would allow him to play, but just being bothered by this is worriesome.

I've posted under my own name and this has happened occassionally, but, it's not a big deal.
It's relatively easy to deal with


Perhaps a better solution would be to get "registered screen names", therefore, allowing those who wish to remain hidden to the general public, would somehow be screened (and known) by Ran and / or the staff?

Why should everybody else post under their name, but you get to post under an anonymous name known only to Ran.
Come on out in the open, it makes for a more level playing field


Perhaps some may view the above as being "paranoid".  While I can see your side, you also have to ask yourself why so many posters use "screen names"?

Because, in some cases it's easier to launch personal attacks, hide, snipe and retreat, without fear of recrimination.

P.S.  Did you happen to read the first page of the business section of yesterday's New York Times ?

If not, I'd suggest getting a copy, it was very informative, especially if you were about to make a wager.

« Last Edit: March 15, 2004, 12:26:15 PM by Patrick_Mucci »

David Wigler

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2004, 12:27:54 PM »
Ran,

Thank you again for stepping up and taking the time to get this done!!  Obviously it is your call.  I do know one poster who we would probably lose due to his affiliation with a major club manufacturer and his concerns about posting negatives about courses that buy his clubs.  You already know him as well.  Is there any way that people could keep screen names, so long as you knew who they were and they were warned that flaming other members might force the GCA staff to reveal them?
« Last Edit: March 15, 2004, 12:28:47 PM by David Wigler »
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

MarkT

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2004, 12:28:40 PM »
Quote
(And if your real name happens to be Three Putt, well, life has been cruel and not being able to post on GCA.com is the least of your worries)

*sniff* *sniff* How come I was singled out? I feel so abused! ;)  ;D (And no, that is not my real name but a nick name a golfing buddy enjoys calling me).

Although I don't post a whole heck of a lot, I do definitely enjoy reading this site. If I am one to be excluded from the group of 1,000, so be it as I would rather not be able to participate in favor of someone who would do so more than I.

Jack_Marr

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2004, 12:29:56 PM »
I agree with the changes and hope I make the cut. Just a thought, couldn't someone called "John Doe" call himself "John Smith" and make it through the net?
John Marr(inan)

Wayne Wiggins, Jr.

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2004, 12:35:41 PM »
I, too, agree with the changes and hope to make the cut.  While my posts have been few, and much shorter than most, I've learned a lot about the game, the courses, designers & archtects, and the history & traditions of this great game.  Thanks for making this an enjoyable and enlightening part of my day.

Wayne Wiggins, Jr.
aka Wigs (and you can still call me that... it's my nickname!)

ForkaB

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2004, 12:37:37 PM »
iH!

My name is ForkaB, from the planet Skyron.  I have been posting for some time under the "pseudonym" "Rich Goodale" but wonder what I should do next.  Any help would be appreciated.........

Jeff Goldman

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2004, 12:39:52 PM »
Dumb question from a computer illiterate.  My username is JGoldman, and my name on posts appears as Jeff Goldman.  Do I have to change something?  If so, how?  Don't want to get punted till I finish my My Home Course piece.

Jeff Goldman
That was one hellacious beaver.

Marty Bonnar

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2004, 12:44:17 PM »
...and the Fat Baldy Drummer lays down his sticks.

Martin.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Scott_Burroughs

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2004, 12:46:25 PM »
It's fun watching all of the full names appear out of the blue!   ;D  Check out those who are logged in to see a bunch of 'new' names.


Jeff,

Your name appearing as your full name is all that matters.  If you do a My Home Course piece, it would be the first "repeat" MHC piece.  To differentiate yours, take lots of pictures!  I plan to do one now that I have a digital camera.  I'm just waiting for the Bermuda to come out of dormancy....

Dan King

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2004, 12:48:18 PM »


Dan King
Quote
I don't care to join any club that's prepared to have me as a member.
  --Groucho Marx
« Last Edit: March 15, 2004, 01:00:44 PM by Dan King »

Steve Lapper

Re:Changes are coming to the Discussion Group
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2004, 12:52:38 PM »
WONDERFUL MOVE RAN....on all counts.


Guess the "teve" is officially outed!



The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

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