Sand filled divots and the rules of golf

[Lloyd_Cole]

I know there has been plenty of discussion on this subject already but I thought I'd add my 2 cents.
Prior to my recent trip to Tobacco Road, I was 'old school' with respect to the 'GUR or not' status of sand filled divots. Now I'm not so sure.
The 5th and 16th holes at TR both have false fronted greens with small catchment areas in which 99% of all balls coming up short end up. The chance of finding your ball in a sand filled divot in these areas is maybe 1 in 3, or worse.
Whilst these areas are not labelled GUR, they are certainly treated as such by 90% of the players, and I suspect that if a tournament were being held, local rules would be in effect to this end.
So where do we draw the line? We want to play the ball as it lies, but with that in mind, surely we expect our ball to be lying reasonably in the short grass more than 2 times out of 3.. thoughts??

[ForkaB]

There is relatively permanent local rule at Dornoch that balls lying in or adjacent to sand filled divots MUST be lifted under the "GUR/Abnormal Condition" rule.  The basic reason is protection of the course (i.e. divots are never going to heal if they keep getting hacked by subsequent players).  From my experience, this phenomenon happens only about once every 3-4 rounds, and really doesn't affect play, in a scoring/protect the field sort of sense.

I know that John V and other USGA hardliners might disagree with this philosophy , but I think it is very reasonable and practical.

I think it's just fine.

[Brian_Gracely]

lloydcole,

The other thing to remember about TR, or any course in the south, is that the grass is dormant in the winter and we don't replace divots...because most of the courses are bermuda grass (which is essentially a creeping weed).  So the conditions you played in recently are representative of the conditions for most of the year, where divots either fill (ie. sand + grass) or are grassed over (grass creeping over the unsanded divot) within a few days, so there isn't a minefield all the time.  

Also, the greens are rarely kept as fast in the growing months are they are now, because they can't survive the heat at those speeds.  So less balls spin back off the greens.  

[Bob_Huntley]

Rich,

Why are the Scots so wise in matters of golf, finance and engineering, yet so dumb in politics and playing soccer and rugby

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Play it as it lies.

[ForkaB]

Bob

The Scots who play rugby and soccer are actually relatively wise to most of their counterparts.  Of course, this is not saying much in terms of soccer, and in both cases their main problem is that they are just hopelessly incompetent.  As for the politicians, yes they are exceedingly foolish, but fortunately, they do not have that much authority under the current constitution.

Vis a vis the other areas, I'd agree with golf (but again that's not any great accomplishment when you compare it to the alternative....) but demur on finance (once quite good, but today--outside of the Royal Bank of Scotland--a shambles) and engineering (great history, shaky present, very uncertain future).

I, for one, am glad that golf is the one of these disciplines that continues to prosper!

[Bob_Huntley]

Rich,

Did your dear wife read your last post? Do they have no-fault divorce in Scotland?

[ForkaB]

Tommy

That is "tough love" purism in its highest form.  If you were to do so, you would have a number of fairways/chipping areas that would fairly quickly turn insto "natural" bunkers or permanent GUR.  This is OK in some circumstances (I can think of the right side of 16 green at Pacific Dunes, or maybe even the right middle of the 8th fairway at Dornoch as good candidates for new "natural" bunkers), but unmanageable if applied liberally (who wants to play fairways that are minefields of GUR chalk marks?).

Thoughts?/

[A_Clay_Man]

Rihc- In your monthly championships, is this local rule in effect? Or, is it SOL? If it is the latter, why wouldn't you want to play out of the type of condition you might experience in competition? Respect for the turf is one thing for casual golf rounds, but not to the detriment of real life practice.

[Donnie Beck]

I agree with Tommy  !!!!!!

[ForkaB]

Bob

Josie would probably think that I was being too kind in my remarks.......

[John_Cullum]

As to a local rule on collection areas that suffer heavy damage, I have seen local rules in competitions that allow for relief from a divot in a defined area. The relief is for interference with lie of ball only, not stance or area of swing. Drop on the nearest point of relief without regard to stance or one club length.

[JohnV]

Rich, I'm sure you can guess my opinion of your local rule.  I am sad as I thought that Scot's loved the true spirit of the game.  Oh well.

One of the interesting side effects of this is that everytime you pull the ball from a divot, you make another one instead of just damaging the old one.  Perhaps if they didn't allow that you'd have less divots in the area?