Tee Design

[TEPaul]

I really like the shared tee idea--like #4 and #16 at Maidstone. It's generally a very friendly and social affair between groups if they happen to arrive together.

We are actually going to do this at Gulph Mills Jeff. I know that you can visualize that the tee boxes of #11 and #18 are very close, almost touching but are not actually shared. Just to experiment with picking up some hole yardage on both #11 and particularly #18 (which is the most amusingly short par 5 of Tom Doak's acquaintence) we are going to put the back tee markers for #18 on the front of #11 and the back tee markers for #11 on the front of #18 tee box. This will effectively pick up about 75-90yds total yards with doing no more than moving the markers (we will have to cut two evergreens down behind #10 green, thank God, to make room for the shots going up #11 from the front of #18 tee). By the way, if you don't remember, the two holes go in exactly opposite directions so this particular shared tee affair will create one of the more unusual shared tee juxtapositions!

When I first mentioned this idea at one of the restoration forum meetings with the membership a whole bunch of members cried out in unison: "Oh my God, no, people will be killed!!", sort of failing to realize that it wasn't particularly likely that golfers would stand facing each other in plain view and fire tee balls directly at each other (although knowing some of the vague members we have that might not be a totally safe assumption to make!).

Anyway once they realized that they wouldn't kill each other now they just love the whole idea and think it's sort of cozy, unique and cool, which of course it is!

[Doug Wright]

Jeff,

Some tee complexes you may or may not have seen:

Pinon Hills, Farmington, NM (Ken Dye), the best "value" golf course on the planet, has a couple of par 3s and some other holes with terrific tee locations that provide a wide variety of angles to the green on par 3s and to the fairway on par 4s. On the par 3 6th, which plays over a canyon, there must be 3-4 different tee boxes that play about the same distance but offer very different angles to the green. There's a par 3 on the back that has a similar set of tees, all of which nicely use the natural terrain for their location--it's a unique property with rock outcroppings and canyons that gave Ken a real opportunity to have fun with the tees. Similarly, some of the par 4s have tee locations that provide very different angles to the fairway. One par 4 (11?) has a tee that offers a straightaway approach to the fairway and a second that is at about a 45 degree angle to the fairway.

Arrowhead GC south of Denver (RTJ II), which Gary Albrecht mentioned in a post recently, also uses the natural topography beautifully in locating tees.  One otherwise forgettable par 4 #14 has a terrific tee location where you walk back 30-40 yards into a red rock formation that forms a natural chute. You hit your tee shot and immediately get this big echo from the rocks of club striking ball!

Like others, my favourites, though, are the simple Ross rectangles located a few paces from the green.

Doug      

[Jeff_Brauer]

Lots of neat ideas here...and good responses.

Tom, I like combined tees as well. I am always a bit perplexed by the square tees...they connote tradition, but truly, gently curving tees generally feel more natural and fit a gently rolling landscape.

HR,

Some GSW trivia - At one time, it was considered in about the same status in DFW as Colonial and Preston Trail.  It fell off a lot because they stayed as equitiy clubs, while it went the management route. A Ralph Plummer/Byron Nelson collaboration in about 1967. Originally conceived as a mens club by Angus Wynne, who developed the GSW industrial park.

The gently rolling mounds (which we left during our remodel) were said by Byron in a letter to be his only contribution to this design - or any design. The course originally exended beyone 8 green into the apartments. While with Killian and Nugent, we remodelled 10 (shortened) 11 and 8 to fit them in. My remodel did not include 14, 5 and 7 greens.  These are all dead right now, while the others are fine, although regrassesd to Champions last year.

The most traumatic thing about the remodel? I had to redo the 6th which was the site of my first (key phrase here is first) hole in one.  It and 17 were switched at the time I made the hole in one. I think at that time the routing was as you envision.

Jeff

[Mike Hendren]

Nos. 1 and 3 at the Cascades: simple rectangles at grade.

[T_MacWood]

Mike
I believe the 1st hole at the Cascades is one of the best opening tee shots in golf, maybe the most interesting I have encountered. I wish I knew why?

[HR]

Jeff, I heard good things about your work at the new Cowboys golf club. I look forward to playing it soon.

Have you toured Dallas National? If so, what are your thoughts?

[HR]

Did Hogan design the course at Trophy Club or is that just part of their sales pitch?
Sorry for all the questions. Thanks, HR

[Jeff_Brauer]

HR

There was an article in, I believe Golf Jounal, not more than a year ago detailing his involvement. Apparently quite heavy - not like todays tour pros (by and large). Eventually, Hogan took his name off the project, without sucess, apparently, since they still use his name with the project.

No way to really tell if the marketing hype then was as good as now, when 2 visits constitutes "designing the course". But, knowing Hogans rep, I don't doubt this one much.

jeff

[Mike Hendren]

Tom, I don't know why either.  The setting at the Cascades is pristine and the anticipation of the course that awaits is hightened by the blind nature of the first tee shot.  Kind of like running down the stairs on Christmas morning when the tree is just around the corner as opposed to being in full view from the upstairs hallway!  

[Mike Hendren]

Tom, I don't know why either.  The setting at the Cascades is pristine and the anticipation of the course that awaits is hightened by the blind nature of the first tee shot.  Kind of like running down the stairs on Christmas morning when the tree is just around the corner as opposed to being in full view from the upstairs hallway!  

[Jeff_Brauer]

HR,

I haven't toured Dallas National, but I did listen to an indepth description from Ron Whitten after his tour (while we were touring Cowboys). So, I guess for now, his thoughts are my thoughts, at least on DN.

Jeff

[Aaron]

There are two tees on one course I found that show you both sides of the spectrum.
The course is Thomas McBroom's Hockley Valley. The 10th and 17th tees are simply amazing in the fact that they are set ridiculously higher then the green. I'm talking 8-iron from 172 yards.

On the 12th or 13th hole, another elevated par 3, the tee has been placed to set up a possible execution. The cart path (carts are mandatory) cuts right in front of the tee. There are no bells, signs or any warning becuase they bought the electric carts that make no sound. it is scary when it gets backed up and you are teeing off hoping no one is coming up the hill.

[HR]

I'm hoping to play Cowboys this week. Any advice?

I toured Dallas National a few weeks ago. From an amateur's prospective, it look's great. Solid par 3's and the ninth hole is special. Overall, I think it will be a great addition to Dallas. However, I'm not sure about the price! What did Ron W. think?