Yardage Markers

[Wayne_Tucker]

Hey Mark, I've done that before.  On a course I know relatively well, it's a pretty simple exercise. Within 100-120 yards on a course I don't know, I definitely wouldn't trust my eyesight.

As far as yardage markers go, I like to find the red (100 yd) white (150) or blue (200) markers, and take about 5 seconds to guess my yardage.

I hate pacing off yardages, and I do it only when I have to because I'm lazy.  So sometimes during the round, I'll just eyeball the situation.

[Bill_McBride]

I've never seen or used a separate yardage book at The Valley Club of Montecito but am always amused by the completely cryptic "yardage guide" on the scorecard.  Trying to figure out which hieroglyphic is a cypress tree and which is a eucalyptus, and then hearing, "Oh, that tree died a few years ago,if you look close you can see the mound where the stump was" is a riot.  After a while you actually just sort of estimate how far away you are and let 'er fly!

Will be at Bandon and Pacific Dunes in August .... are the yardages marked there?

[Paul Perrella]

 David,
 We sent them back as we had just eaten. From our servers reaction this had apparently happened quite often.
 Mark,
  I am also of the thought that the less yardage markers the better. The lie, the wind and the type of shot you want to play are all more important than the exact yardage to the hole. I must say though that I am a member at a new club in upstate N.Y. and our desire to have less markers is not shared by all of the membership. Sometimes the old ways of doing things are hard to change.

[Mark_Fine]

Paul,
We just put in a new irrigation system at Lehigh and I had to stress hard to the golf and grounds committee's that we don't need every sprinkler head marked and we surely don't need "three" yardages on each one.  At one point the recommendation was to put yardage to the front, middle and back of each green.  Fortunately we did away with that.
Mark

[THuckaby2]

Apologies for the intrusion on on hell of a great discussion... but Bill McBride, did you get my emails?  I may have a wrong address for you these days.  I am also going to be at Bandon in August and it would be wonderful if our trips coincided.  I'm there 8/17-20.  Please reply to tom.huckaby@clorox.com.

OK, I'll chime in here re cart-ball / golf once again:  here in the Bay Area as Dan knows, we do have choices re walking / riding.  But it seems that by far the most interesting courses are all geared toward riding.  That's a huge generalization, and yes there are choices, but cart-ball seems to be here to stay.

Side note:  I also played the most unwalkable course on this earth last weekend:  Rancho San Marcos near Santa Barbara.  My god there were some rides from green to tee... But that being said, there were a number of GREAT holes there and it certainly would have been biting off my nose to spite my face to NOT play there just because I had to ride.  That's my main problem with militant walking... you just miss a lot of great golf.  Call it cart-ball if you will, it doesn't decrease the enjoyment.  For me anyway.

Re yardgage markers, I'm with Dan, they make things slower most definitely.

OK, back to my hole.  Bill - email me!

TH

[TEPaul]

Interesting discussion between Dan king and JamieS about whether the use of yardages and yardage markers makes golf slower or not.

Slower or faster than what?

Obviously the use of yardages by practically everyone these days makes golf slower than the way the game was once played when hardly anyone had even the slightest thought of yardages. In those days (a long time ago) golfers would get to their ball, look at their target and hit it. That's about the extent of what they had to calculate.

So if Dan King is saying that golf today because of the use of yardages is slower than that bygone era, obviously he's right. But if he's recommending that yardages and yardage markers be removed from golf and golf courses tomorrow and that golf would again become instantly faster as a result,  he has absolutely lost his mind--which I already knew! Actually it's not so much that Dan has lost his mind, it's just that the poor fellow is addicted to golf but happens to have been born about 400 years too late!!

Go ahead, let's just remove yardage markers or yardage information off of golf courses all over the world and give Dan the job of brainwashing the dependence and use of yardages out of about 8 gazillion golfers!

Whether you like it or not, Dan, almost every golfer uses yardages somehow today whether they need to or not. To brainwash  that out of their heads would take God knows how long if it were possible at all. In the meantime they'll be wandering all over the place trying to figure it out somehow and never be able to. They'll be hitting even worse shots than they already do with yardages and golf courses will start to look something like the Long Island Expressway at evening rush hour! That's without yardages or yardage info!

All JamieS is saying is that's the way it is now so since it is just give them the information as quickly and simply as possible! It's fine to dream about the good old days before yardages existed in the mind of the golfer but that's about as near as you're going to get to increasing the pace of play today by removing yardages.

Jack Nicklaus is credited with popularizing the use of yardages in golf through the mention of it by the class California amateur Gene Andrews. I don't know that Gene Andrews was the first to use yardages or not but I do know that golfers did not start to use yardages through the Andrews/Nicklaus connection. They were doing it before that!

I know this because of my father who was a national tournament touring amateur. He used yardages starting right after WW2 and so did many of his tournament playing contemporaries.

Now if you want to talk about time consuming, that was it! But they did it for a number of reasons. They were always looking for an edge! Golf was beginning to change and so was it's architecture. Irrigation systems were being used more than ever before and the way they could hit shots was changing. They were able to hit the ball higher than before and stop if faster. This type of thing played right into the use of exact yardages! So they wanted to know yardages and they needed to know yardages to have an edge.

But the time consuming thing was courses didn't have yardages, not even things like 150yd markers of any kind. And many of the tournaments they played in had qualifiers where they couldn't play practice rounds. So they would get to sites a day early and make their own yardage notes and books by walking (pacing off the course). And they did know almost exactly how far they could carry the ball with any club or shot with that club.

I have no idea how many times I shagged balls for my Dad. Clubs had more practice ranges than before but he had his own balls (another edge) and would practice with them away from the ranges. At Piping Rock it was always on the far left side of the back of the range (the enormous double polo fields).

The procedure was always the same. He would dump and count the balls in twos and I would walk out with a first baseman's mitt about 75-80 yards depending on the wind and he would hit sand wedges. Then he would wave me out and I would go out to about 100 yds for the wedge and he would wave me out 10yds (I would take really big steps for the yard) for every club through the bag and end with the driver.

Players like my Dad in that era were also what I would call transition players. Most of them were shot makers from the old days that were basically feel shots where they could and would get the ball to do a number of things! It was sometimes interesting and impressive and seems now in retrospect very cool. I remember into the longer irons and then the woods he would hit his whole shot inventory. I could really see his fades coming out of his left and my right and curving right at me. Then the low balls and the high balls and the draws and every combination of those shots that he had, all curving and coming right at my. It was amazing how he could hit a particular club so much shorter with a fade and longer with a draw. The draws were their distance shots and the fades were their control shots. But they were also starting to hit shots higher and softer more often. God, it's great to think back and remember this stuff. It really was impressive and I don't see anybody hitting the variety of shots or ever using them like they did back then. Probably even the equipment today makes it harder to do!

But anyway, that was transition golf between the eras of golf and golf's architecture (WW2) and yardages were becoming part of the edge and the equation of the game. Nicklaus/Andrews may have been the first that the public became aware of but they weren't the first to use yardages.

On a sadder and regrettable note. My dad died about nine years ago and I went down to Florida and went through all his things. In the attic were boxes and boxes of yardage books from all over the country and world really that he had done himself in little page flipping notebooks you could slide into your back pocket. Now I really wish I'd kept them. God knows the time and effort and use and fun he got out of those things!

Another course that today does not use "on course" yardages or markers; NGLA! They have nice books and I forgot I even had one from last year and just went with the caddies info. It's actually nice teamwork when they have the yardages and you don't. It good for trust and they are much more part of the team that way and it makes for an even better day of golf.

[THuckaby2]

Tom Paul, I have absolutely nothing to add other than that was beautiful.  Thank you very much for that post.

TH

[Doug Wright]

TE,

I hereby nominate your post for "Post of the Year." Particularly juxtaposed against the venomous posts going on in the ASGCA thread. Thank you.

Doug  

[Mark_Fine]

Somebody here can probably answer this question - 100 years ago, did courses have noted distances from tee to green?  If they did, then golfers had yardage markers on each hole.  They might have been a gorse bush or a rabbit's hole or a mound or something but they did have noted distances.  I don't believe they just stood over the ball and swung away.  They knew how far they wanted to hit their golf ball.  

I go back to that old saying, "everything in moderation".  That holds for yardage markers as well.  Too many courses go to the extreme and as pointed out above, I do believe it does slow up play.  

[Raymond]

TEPaul,

TEPaul

Great post!
I hope some day my son and daughter will take the time to remember our times together on the course or range, sort through my personal golf memorabilia, scorecards, yardage books, etc.and come away with an understanding of what this wonderful game has meant to me. I can only hope that my kids respect this part of my life half as much as you do your father's dedication to the game and the memories you took from that. Hope that makes sense....

[Dan King]

TEPaul writes:
So if Dan King is saying that golf today because of the use of yardages is slower than that bygone era, obviously he's right. But if he's recommending that yardages and yardage markers be removed from golf and golf courses tomorrow and that golf would again become instantly faster as a result, he has absolutely lost his mind--which I already knew! Actually it's not so much that Dan has lost his mind, it's just that the poor fellow is addicted to golf but happens to have been born about 400 years too late!!

The only word in the above quote that I take exception to is instantly.  Of course it wouldn't happen over night.

I responded  because JamieS says yardage speeds up play. There is nothing to support that. Because there are people who have bought into yardage speeding up play, it now makes sense to give the golfer more and better yardage in the interest of speeding up play more. The only problem is they are working off of a myth.

Sure I'd love to go back in time. I see very little in improvement in the game of golf. Earlier golfers were made of sturdier stuff and understood the essence of golf much better than today's golfer.

There are far too many golfers that believe golf is about shots. The golfer no longer gets to the ball on his own, figures out the strategy of the hole on his own, figures out distance on his own. They don't even have to figure out course conditions on their own since the condition is the same today as it was yesterday, as it was last week, as it was last month, etc...  The only think they do on their own is figure out weather (they'll come up with a tool for that eventually) and swing the club. Eventually golfers will only swing the club on their own and golf will be completely dead. The only thing to wonder is why they bother playing outdoors at all.

I don't see myself stemming any tide of golf turning into darts. But I'm not going to sit back when people report the myth that yardage speeds up play as if it was fact.

I'm starting to decide the real problem is golfers who take their game far too serious. They have no concept of casual golf and tournament golf. Sure your Dad would go out and get yardage for big tournaments. But I bet he didn't do that in casual play. How many golfers are willing to trade shots for speed even in casual rounds? My experience is that the number is very small and shrinking.  I play with far too many golfers who only know one speed and can't adjust to the pace of the day. They are going to take as long as they figure they need regardless of how far out of pace they are, because they believe the alternative is to miss a shot.  Jeez, it's just a shot, get over it, there are plenty more where it came from.

Dan King
dking@danking.org

quote:"Golf is peculiar game of a peculiar people."
--John L. Low, 1903

[David Moriarty]

Tom,

Did you play La Purisima while you were in the area?  While I liked some holes at Rancho San Marcos, I think La Purisima is more interesting than Rancho San Marcos overall, and a nice walking course.

To stay on topic, I read somewhere that the original owner of La Purisima refused to allow any yardage markers on the course. Last time I played there they had 100, 150, and 200 yd. plates but no yardage on sprinklers. But when the wind blows there, you are better off not knowing.

[Mike O'Neill]

Dan,

A couple of questions:

1. Why should golfers "trade shots for speed"? Would you be happier if golfers skipped, on average, every third or fourth shot so that you could get off the course sooner? Just what is an acceptable "shot" for a golfer to take in your opinion? And by "shot" I mean club selection to set-up to follow-through.

2. Is is okay for a caddie to tell a golfer what the yardage is based on his/her vast experience with a given golf course?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

[TEPaul]

This speed thing in golf is starting to get perplexing.

Now Dan King has decided that there is something wrong with today's golf and golfers because they think the game is about shots.

Ah, Dan, you're damn right they do, as they should! The first and last thing I ever heard about golf was that it surely was about shots-and it's architecture sort of depends on that and reflects it. You know things like concentrating on stringing together as few quality shots as you can to win holes in match play and maybe shoot a good and satisfying score in stroke play! I kinda always thought that's what the golf game was all about. Now you want golfers to trade shots in the name of speed? Wow!

Maybe you're getting pace of play confused with speed. The idea is to not waste time so as not to hold other players up and such. There is nothing wrong with trying to hit every shot you play in a round well in an attempt to win holes and matches or score well. And in attempting to do that you really don't need to waste anyone's time including your own.

But I don't think that golf was ever intended to be or considered to be a race where it was a good thing for a golfer to trade shots for speed. It was never that way and I hope it never gets to be that way.

Maybe you should take up running and concentrate on running as fast as you can so you can get it over with as fast as possible!

[Peter Galea]

I really enjoyed playing SFGC, twice. The first time I started on 10, my caddy after watching me play told me on #1 to hit the 'magic' 5 wood (2nd), I smoked it and it was still going up as it crossed John Daly Blvd.(no relation to the PGA and British Champion). I like courses with no yardages, it requires more of the player. I TRUELY believe that golf is a game of "judgement and perception".
I should have known it was too much club, guess I was greedy.
Now that I've said that, I'll take the other stance. There are scorecards available to all players. There are tee signs telling you what hole you are on. I've been told there are landforms and other clues at TOC to tell a player the distance. We should all use the "Rules of Golf" to help us play the game. On the venerable old courses where there are no markers there are usually caddies to guide you. It's you option to take one and listen to the wisdom they impart. Markers or not, "Play the game". Judgement and Perception.

[Dan King]

We’re getting away from the original thread and I get this sense of Ran’s finger hovering over the delete key.

When a group falls off pace, there are things they should do to catch back up. Sometimes it might mean shortening their pre-shot routine, sometimes it might mean continuous putting, sometimes it might mean not getting exact yardage, but a reasonable approximation of yardage, sometimes it might mean just looking at a putt from behind rather than four angles.  I assume the reason some golfers have incredibly long pre-shot routines is because they think it will help them. I’m guessing golfers think marking every bluidy putt will result in more of them holed. So if they cut some of this stuff short they may be trading shots for speed.

Barring doing things to speed up, yes, if a group falls off the pace they should skip every third or fourth shot. They should do whatever it takes to stop being rude and holding up other golfers.

We all play at different paces. I like to play in under three hours. Others prefer four or five. As a faster golfer, I don’t hold up other golfers. I’m not the rude one.  If I did hold up others, I’d make damn sure my group would wave the group behind us through.

Ideally that is what would happen. In Scotland, slower groups get out of the way for faster groups. But in the U.S. it doesn’t happen in the passing lane on the freeway, and it isn’t happening on the golf course. Since they refuse to get out of my way, my only hope is that they will compromise with some speed we can both live with. I’d wish these five hour round golfers would at least pick up the pace to four hours. I’ll figure out how to live with four hours if I have to. But they can’t just keep playing the way they are and magically speed up. They have to take action, and one of the ways to take action is stop taking the game so damn serious in casual golf.

Tom, if golf was just about the shots, why do you need to do it on a golf course? Do it on a range or in a virtual golf booth and get out of the way of us who think golf is about so much more than the shots. Golf is about being outdoors, enjoying the comradeship, learning to test yourself against the rub of  the green, testing your stress levels, and just enjoying a game with a long and wonderful heritage.

Three hour rounds is hardly speed golf. It is more than enough time to enjoy myself, chat with my companions, tell stories, enjoy the scenery, and just have a great time on the course.

The issue is how do three-hour golfers get along on the same course as five-hour golfers? The current system of the five-hour golfers being rude and forcing their pace on everyone else isn’t working very well. It would be nice if the slow golfers would show consideration for others and either get out of the way or pick up the pace.

Dan King
dking@danking.org

quote:"Golf is a game to teach you about the message from within, about the subtle voices of the body-mind. And once you understand them you can more clearly see your hamartia, the ways in which you approach to the game reflects your entire life. Nowhere does a man go so naked."
 --Michael Murphy  (Golf in the Kingdom)

[Peter Galea]

Changing from yardage markers to speed of play.
I loved the Ed Carman/Running Deer thread.
I printed it out and gave it ot my owner and head pro.
In a weekly meeting today I brought up the concept of a 3 1/2 hour play day. I thought that we could choose a day and advertise this for players who like to have some day left after golf. My idea was to pick a slow sign up day, use longer tee time intervals and as an added incentive maybe the club would buy lunch for those who were able to get in in 3.5 hours. My pros like the idea, however, their question was how do we accomodate the regular players or those who need more time to play. They brought up a situation wher a player was not allowed to play in the first group out because it was immpossible for him to play in less than 4 hours (now matter how hard he tried). How can I make this work?

[Mike O'Neill]

Dan,

I think it would be nice if golfers walked more quickly to their next shot. And when it is busy, it would be nice if they picked up that last two-footer. But you can't force them to do much else. Those other things you mention as being important to golf seem only to be important to you if you can have them in under three hours. So you would like to force you timeline on others just as you perceive they are forcing theirs on you.

You suggest that Tom just go to the range. You list several things that golf is about, only one of which requires one to be on a golf course (rub of the green). But that is exactly why Tom can't find the game of golf at a range. Golf shots gain a lot of their meaning in conjunction with the rub of the green. Actually, the other things you mention as being important can be found at a picnic at the park, assuming the park has a horseshoe pit. I bet Shivas Irons was/is a heck of a horseshoe tosser.  

Lastly, so that Ran does not delete this, is it okay for a caddie to give yardages to a player?

[TEPaul]

Dan:

I like what you say about the things that many golfers do that take so much time getting ready to hit shots, particularly on the greens, like analyzing putts from every conceivable angle. They probably do think it's necessary and that it helps them play better. Like you, I doubt it really does and it's a shame that someone didn't teach them otherwise at some point, maybe when they were young and learning the game.

I don't agree sometimes with some of your criticisms of the Touring pros but that is obviously where many golfers get into habits like that. Kids especially emulate pros and good players instinctively and so do others. Some of the things that go on, although not necessarily time consuming are pretty darn hilarious. I guess the 90% of the young players today who are really interested in the game probably feel they can hit better shots and shoot lower scores if they tuck their shirt's left sleeve up under the shoulder too, like Tiger does.

I'll take guys like John Huston and John Daly on the putting greens anytime. They basically just get up there and hit the ball. And somebody who takes more than a practice swing drives me crazy! Taking 3-4 or more per shot is dumb and really can't help a golfer. I often take one pretty aggressive practice swing and on that I'm going to that your advice and cut that out,  particularly after Nick Faldo also said to cut it out as it isn't real great for your timing and probably just wears you out that much more!

Actually there may be a logical and doable way to get players to keep moving in a timely fashion. Telling any and all golfers to play in 3 1/2 hours or 4 hrs and 15 minutes or whatever just may be too large a context. Maybe a better way would be to tell them (sort of ingrain in their minds) that they only have 30 seconds to hit their shots once they arrive at their ball. And that includes doing anything and everything they think is necessary for that shot.

That's what we do in our tournament officiating with the GAP and particularly if someone is warned and on the clock. You don't have to tell them what time consuming junk they need to cut out, they sort of figure that out for themselves.

So I agree with you that the extraneous stuff should go--golfers should be reminded of that and taught that by anyone who can teach them.

But trade shots or skip or forgo shots in the name of speed or even pace? No way, no conceivable way, not for me anyway. And if your group is behind me, I'll be the first to wave you through every time. If somebody tells me on a golf course I should trade or forgo shots in the name of speed, I'll be sure to stay home next time I'm asked to play!

When I said golf is about shots, I really mean that. That's the actual and technical game of golf as far as I'm concerned. I never said that golf is JUST about shots--you just happened to add that word into what I said. Although I do like to concentrate on hitting shots as good as I can and as few as I can, I'm fairly certain that I enjoy the company, outdoors and things like the heritage of the game just as much as you do. And by the way, I'm not in any way a slow player; actually on the fast side!

[THuckaby2]

To David Moriarty:  no, I didn't play La Purisima this trip, though I have played it before.  Tough call for me between the two, and it's colored by the fact I last played RSM four days ago and LP 5-6 years ago.  Right now I'm leaning toward RSM, but I'm sure if I went back to LP tomorrow it would change.  I loved LP, I remember that.  I also remember it beating the crap out of me, chewing me up and spitting me out.

TH

[Dan King]

So you would like to force you timeline on others just as you perceive they are forcing theirs on you.

Nope, all they have to do is step aside and let faster groups play through.  

On a golf course we are all heading down a single lane highway. We can only move as fast as the slowest car. The fast cars aren't forcing their speed on the slow car, it's the opposite. The slow car should pull over and let faster cars by, but if they aren't going to do that they better at least pick up the pace to something reasonable.

Lastly, so that Ran does not delete this, is it okay for a caddie to give yardages to a player?

Sure, the caddy and the player are a team. I don't want yardage easily available on the course, but if you know some spot is XX yards to the green, then I have no problem with players using that knowledge to their advantage. I have no problem with TEPaul's Dad going out before a tournament and figuring out yardage. I would like that if he shared that information with others that it be considered advise and subject to penalties.

Dan King
dking@danking.org

quote:"I was lying 10 and had a 35-foot putt. I whispered over my shoulder: `How does this one break?' And my caddie said `Who cares?'"
 --Jack Lemmon

[aclayman]

Great quote on a sad day from a great man.  thanx, dan.

I know what dan means and there is no cure- all or solution except knowledge and experience.
I have always tried to figure yardage by feel before looking for actual. The truth is the one helps give confidence to the other. Knowing the actual is the booby prize. The way it is playing at that moment from that lie is where the shot-making comes in.
I once was forwarding my experiences to a former friend who was new to the game. He would always wanted to know two things that really bugged me, One, was exact yardage(like he good hit the right shot ) the second was the procedure under the rules. I never had a problem explaining all the options(as long as pace wasn't an issue) until I had to do so Umpteen times and frustration would set in and my pacemaker was an issue.(J/K)

Pete- I think there is only one way to proceed if your serious. It has to made a policy and clear to anyone wishing to make a time that all times up to a certain time are for the more efficient player. If a person won't agree to keep pace of play paramount over their score than they can come back later when the price is doubled (or not). I think a legal move to use would be to get a signature on an agreement when funds are transfered, then if they refuse to play within the parameters set under your agreemnet they won't have a leg to stand on if they're litigeous.  

[Mike O'Neill]

Dan,

Thanks for the answers. The problem is that your position favors the person walking with a caddy over the person walking. It not only seems arbitrary to say that a caddy can provide yardage but a sprinkler head or a post cannot, but it also requires that a golf course have a caddy program and that a golfer shell out the money for a caddy. Sounds like the average joe muni player doesn't get yardage in your scenario.

As for speed, I've had times when I played 9 holes instead of 18 because the 4-5 hour round was too long. I know you don't care about score so that may work for you also. I wish it were as simple as players waving others through. But when there is a steady stream of golfers, all in the same position, you just end up waving someone through to wait anyway. The one time I played golf on a course with GPS the cart told us to speed up play if we were behind. It saved the ranger being the bad guy. I suspect it had some effect on the golfers to have that staring them in the face. Golfers do have an obligation to be reasonable with their speed, as they are part of an overall group. But they have a right to hit all of their shots too. IMHO.

[Dan King]

Of course hiring a caddie would put the player at an advantage over a golfer that doesn't hire a caddie. Not a lot of caddies would get hired if they put you at a disadvantage.

Hire a caddie, and it can be two against one. A caddie will do many things, such as carry the bag, advise you on strategy, help read greens, etc...  Often hiring a caddie means you are paying for local knowledge.

I have no problem with caddies having more local knowledge, including yardage, than the visiting golfer. Our you opposed to other advantages a caddie brings to the player?

Sure, on a packed course, everyone isn't moving and you are stuck with a pace. But somewhere during the day, someone caused that slow down. In a world without rude golfers it wouldn't have happened. The original slow group that caused the slow down would be stepping aside letting others through.  Sure, there are poorly designed courses and courses that try to force too many golfers on the course, but generally slow golf is caused  by slow golfers.

It's not the total time it takes to golf that I hate. Most times there's no reason in the world I couldn't spend all day on the course. It's the waiting that bugs me. The pace of the thing. The fact that I could be playing a nice casual 36 hole round in the time it takes to play 18.  There are plenty of times that it takes 2½ to 3 hours to play the first nine that I have decide nine is more than enough for that day.

Dan King
dking@danking.org

quote:"I know you can get fined for throwing a club. What I want to know is if you can get fined for throwing a caddie?"
--Tommy Bolt

[Mike O'Neill]

Dan,

I never said I was opposed to the advantages of a caddie. Why would I care to stop whatever someone else's money can buy?

I am however opposed to the idea that one can only get yardage advice from a caddy. That's just silly, with all due respect. That means that the 99%, or whatever it is, of golf courses that lack caddies would have no yardage markers at the tee, in the fairway or on the scorecard. It would only be in the elite world of golf you aspire to that a golfer could get any information. And only I might add by paying for it. You neglect the average joe muni golfer who justs wants to know how long the next par three is. Am I reading this correctly or am I missing something?

Regarding what seems to be an arbitrary nod to the caddy over other avenues of information, may I quote you from an above post and ask, "Based on what?" If this is JUST your opinion, then is it also JUST a preference, or do you believe there is a concrete way to justify your position?

As usual, thanks for the answers.