[APBernstein]

I will be spending a week in Washington, D.C. working in the office of Congresswoman Capito (R-WV02).  My question is: what course(s) do I need to play?  Obviously, there is Congressional, but are there any other better courses in the area?  Chevy Chase?  Burning Tree?  Any courses a little farther away (Baltimore, etc.)?

Thanks a lot!

Andrew

[THuckaby2]

Two words:  Five Farms.  It's near Baltimore.  Absolute classic.

On the other end of the scale, I think ALL of us in here could use a round at Meadows Farm near Fredricksburg, VA.  This will prove if you have a sense of humor.  Look it up and you will see what I mean... Damn I had fun there.  My take is if you hate that course you take this architecture stuff WAY too seriously.  No one's gonna cure cancer building a golf course.

Caves Valley has been discussed in here also and it's not everyone's cup of tea but if you get an invite do not turn it down.  For golf experience Caves is tough to beat.  It's also hosting an upcoming Sr. Open so you'll want to have the "been there" attitude once people start ripping it then.

I'm sure there are many others but those are the only ones I've sampled in my trips there.

So congressional aide, eh?  You are living one hell of a life so far, young Andrew!

TH

[Scott_Burroughs]

I've heard good things about Woodmont and Columbia CC's.  There's also RTJ, home of the President's Cup.  Beechtree, a Doak course, is north of Baltimore.

Andrew, I will be in the area Aug 4-7 and will be looking to play.  e-mail me at smb10565@gsk.com if you're around then and interested.

[JamieS]

Andrew,
I'm not sure what kind of access you'll have to some of the private clubs, but there are some very good ones in the area.
Baltimore CC-Five Farms-East Course(private), a classic Tillinghast gem.
Four Streams GC-(Private) In Bealsville, MD, 35 minutes northwest of the city. A new Steve Smyers design that I played last year in the Middle Atlantic Am. It is a very challenging course with a great variety of holes, set in the rolling farm land of that area.

[APBernstein]

Tom Huckaby:

I am interning this summer for Congresswoman Capito and the next with Northwestern Mutual Financial Network, which should also be a great experience.

I was also thinking Five Farms, and that could be my final destination.  I have heard only good things about the course but would be most willing to hear any more if you have any more advice/raves to give me.

Thanks a lot.

Andrew

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom Huckaby,
Once again, your list of CC's played is impressive for the "banished to a cheap muni" golfer you claim to be.

Really quite impressive.

[TimCodd]

Andrew
 E-mail me with your dates and I will see what I can arrange for Access. CODDTD@AOL.com
Just as long as you take pity on us high handicappers.
           Cheers.
               T.P.C.

[THuckaby2]

Fantastic - good luck with both, Andrew!

If a classic is what you want to see, look no further than Five Farms.  But given your time at Pinehurst and your many other outings, you seem to be very strong already in classics... But this would be the best place to continue the learning, in any case.

If you want to just laugh and have a great time and see what jazzes the vast majority of the golfing public, check out Meadows Farm.

Toward that end, I must report for our CA contingent a very depressing occurrence from last weekend.  It seems we all generally liked Coyote Creek - Valley Course, although we all want to re-do the routing - just because it had such cool strategic merit.  Well, preparing for my match Saturday I had to listen to the guy next to me on the range go on and on for his buddies about how the course "absolutely sucks, what a waste, they ought to put it back how it was, etc. etc."

His reason?

The greens were bumpy.  That's it.

Conditions and frills are what impress the masses.  I don't see that ever changing.  What a shame.

TH

[THuckaby2]

Tommy - I do get around, but YOU saying this to me goes beyond the pot calling the kettle black!

It all comes down to this:  golf is priority one when I travel, unless the wife absolutely forbids it (and yes, that does happen - I had as much chance of playing golf in a recent trip to Orlando as I did shooting 62 upon my return to my home course!).  If I'm travelling for business, that gets scheduled around golf time.  My wife has also been very understanding to date re my solo golf trips with the boys... It all comes down to priority and addiction - I'm sure you understand how this goes!

Here at home, I am indeed Joe Q. Public. I rely on the graces of others for everything and I have been very fortunate in that sense.  But I still bow to you, the unquestioned king!

You remain high in my pantheon of heroes.

TH

[APBernstein]

I don't think access will be a problem at most of these clubs, but I would welcome any help I could get.

Jamie:

Hadn't heard about the new Smyers course.  I have never played any of his courses and am looking forward to the chance.  Any more details would be great.

Scott:

What timing.  Looks as if the 4th will be my last day, departing back to Charleston that evening.  We will see if we can work something out.

Andrew

[JamieS]

Andrew,
Check out the website:http://www.fourstreams.com/
Good overview of the course and club, with alot of info and good pic's of the course

The course and facilities are first class, if you get a chance to play it, I think you'll really like it. The course has a "linksey" look to it, with most of the back nine set in a wooded area.

Let me know what you think of it if you get the chance to play.
Jamie

[T_MacWood]

Andrew
Columbia is one of the more entertaining courses I have come across. A very clever Travis course with a vintage feel--crazy greens, a blind shot or two, brutally deep fairway bunkers, a railroad line that bisects the course and some very quirky fun holes. The course underwent some updating by Fazio in the 70's or 80's--George I believe--and those few features standout like a soar thumb, but don't diminish from the overall architecture of the place--it takes a major conserted effort to diminish Travis.

Tom H.
I'm with Tommy. We all play public golf, hell Ran's home course is Southern Pines. For a guy who claims to be classically tone death, you sure have made your way to some of the most exclusive classic venues--Chicago, Baltimore, Cypress Point, Riviera, LACC, etc. I beginning to think you might be a product of Hollywood and enjoy playing the part of naive publinx golfer.

[THuckaby2]

Tom MacWood:

Er, uh, stammer, stammer...

I plead no lo contendre.

Please realize I am most definitely Joe Q. Public at home here, but I guess I have made a lot of friends and these course references usually apply to ONE round each, over the period of 28 years of golf.  That's the case re each of the ones you mention besides Riviera - one time I weaseled my way on.  A lot of my access has come through tournament play also...

The only private membership I have ever had was as a junior member - $10 per month in late 70's - at Woodland Hills CC in SoCal.  Today I am a proud member of the Men's Club at Santa Teresa GC in San Jose, CA, and that's it.  Believe me, I'd love to shed my title and join a club but that's not financial reality here in Silicon Valley.

But golf courses are indeed my addiction so I try my best to get around!  Normal golf is most definitely public in any case for this kid.

I yam what I yam and that's all that I yam.

TH

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Whats a little ball-busting amongst friends eh???

[ForkaB]

Andrew, four words, from one who has been there, re DC in July/August, and with all due respect to Robin Williams:

IT'S HOT!  DAMN HOT!

[George Pazin]

The Men's Club at Santa Teresa?

Sounds like someone stole my idea for the latest & greatest in Myrtle Beach: combining a golf course with a strip club!

[Adam_Messix]

Andrew--

Beyond Congressional, you would enjoy Columbia the most of the DC courses although Burning Tree would be a close third.

I enjoyed playing Chevy Chase prior to Art Hills redesign (modernization would be more appropriate)....The old course was so enjoyable with it's quirky blind shots and interesting greens....

As far as Baltimore CC is concerned, I'm not sure if the desire to play there is worth the rude treatment that you are likely to get.  I know they have changed pros since my last visit, but I'm not sure Tony could have changed it that much.  The East course is a real good example of Tillinghast architecture.  The West course is a waste of good property.  

In Baltimore, I really enjoyed the Green Spring Valley Hunt Club with it's starting and ending par 3s and small RTJ Sr. greens (sounds unbelievable doesn't it) and Woodholme.  The Suburban Club is a pretty good Tillinghast course.  Queenstown Harbor is pretty good and about an hour away as well as Chester River Y & CC..a 1927 Alex Findlay design.  

[THuckaby2]

That's a damn good idea, George - I'll present this to the club directors!

"Men's Club" at least out here in CA means a club of male golfers attached to a public municipal course for the purpose of doing tournaments.  I like your definition a hell of a lot better though.  But then what do we tell the Santa Teresa Women's Club?

There is such a thing....

TH

[THuckaby2]

Just noticed Adam's post here... interesting comment re Baltimore CC - that's exactly my take re Chicago GC - I was treated like dirt there so I always have a very hard time praising the course too much, even though everyone here seems to worship it.  I must have been with the wrong people there, and the right people at Baltimore CC, cuz I found no rude treatment whatsoever at the latter....

Interesting how our perceptions are formed.  I'm with you though - VERY tough to get beyond shitty treatment, no matter how great the course is.  I know we should in these discussions but it's just really tough.

TH

[APBernstein]

Same with my experience at Burnham and Berrow outside of Taunton.  Had a great day playing golf only to have it royally spoiled by my treatment before and after the round.

[Craig Disher]

Andrew,
Send me an email at cdisher@erols.com.

[Patrick Hitt]

Andrew,
Since you are in DC you will have time to go to Rock Creek Park GC. The condition of this public course run by the National Park Service is frightening - the park service wont cut or prune trees - but it is a fun layout that Cornish/Whitten called a Flynn redesign. I played it alot in College without any clue of it's possible heritage and really enjoyed the quirk. The course is under 5,000 yds and a par 65 but you can see the Flynn hiding beneath the mess. I never mind paying the $18 to imagine the possibilities...The only dog track worth playing once in the district.

[JamieS]

I just wanted to respond to a post concerning Baltimore CC, and the rude treatment someone had endured a few years ago. I can assure you that this is not the case under the current staff. I had the opportunity to play in a 36 hole tournament in the Fall of 1999(Five Farms 4 Ball), I was told the professional(Tony Pancake...yes that is his real last name) was new that year.
He and his staff could not have been more hospitable and gracious during our visit to Five Farms. The staff, along with the committee, did a wonderful job running the tournament. If you get the chance to play there, don't miss it.

[THuckaby2]

Thanks for the post, Jamie.  This gives two lessons:

1. I am the most guilty of this, but one can't judge a place by one day of bad treatment.  It's very hard not to (just ask me re Chicago GC and Adam Messix re Baltimore CC or Andrew Bernstein re B&B) but I guess we have to allow that clubs have bad days or bad individuals.

2. Clubs need to realize that they are ALWAYS under scrutiny re how they treat guests.  Perhaps they don't care, and that speaks volumes in and of itself... But if they do, one bad day can mean a lot.  I doubt Chicago GC nor Baltimore GC nor B&B could give a lick what I think or Adam thinks or Andrew thinks, but here we are discussing this on the internet and that can't be "good" for the clubs.

Just my $.02.

TH

[Adam_Messix]

Tom & Jamie:

I must first admit to knowing Tony Pancake and liking his work very much from my experiences with him playing at Valhalla.  I've talked with him once since he became the pro at BCC and he was open in welcoming up for a visit to play.  

Now my experiences at Five Farms under the previous regime were not very good around the clubhouse, but outstanding once I teed off.  As stated earlier, the East course is a great example of Tillinghast's work.  I particularly liked the first two holes, the par 3 ninth, and the long 14th.  I enjoy the golf part of Five Farms East immensely and thought the course is one of the 35 best in the US (unlike most, the only course I visit for the "experience" is Augusta National.)  

As a side note, I found it interesting that Tom had a bad experience at Chicago Golf....I was treated very well there.  I also think he's correct in the idea that many clubs could really care less what others think.  

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