[Mike_Cirba]

This is sort of a fun thread.  Thanks, Tom MacWood, for the idea!  

Let's keep naming holes where missing the green on purpose is a viable or preferred strategy, but let's also try to explain why we think that makes it good or lousy golf course architecture.

From a general standpoint, it seems there are three major reasons to miss on purpose.

1) The green itself is so severe that being on it above or along the hole is suicide.

2) The hazards or angles around the green are so penal that we chicken out to the other side.

3) There is a clear preferred area to miss, which leaves an easier next shot than what might be possible anywhere but stony on the green.

[Paul Turner]

Until recently, Hoylake had a couple of great holes in the 7th and 17th where often the sensible shot was to steer away from the OB and miss the green.

At the Dowie hole the 7th this meant hitting to the right, resulting in a chip back through a tricky swale.  And at the Royal hole, the 17th if the tee shot wasn't hit down the right towards the bunkers, the approach shot would be very risky since the green would slide the ball OB onto the road.  So often it would be best lay up and hope for an up and down.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ben C. Dewar,

I was told that Hogan played that hole way left, up the 4th fairway by the tee, thus giving him the best angle into the left to right diagonal green.

I don't believe a player of Hogan's ball striking ability would run the risk of hitting into a bunker, with the uncertainty of the lie, versus onto the green, especially when you consider the length of the hole.

That green isn't that difficult to putt compared to the 2nd, 3rd, 11th and especially the 18th green.

I've always wondered how he played # 10 into a north wind when the pin was far left.

[Ben C. Dewar]

Patrick,
You may very well be correct, I heard he went up the left edge, but not the fourth fairway.  The caddy said only when the pin was in a certain position, I cannot for the life of me remember where, sorry.

A good question regarding the 10th, I am not sure.  That sounds like a good post though too.  As to how the great holes are played, so little time.

Regards

[DB3]

Nice topic:
  I haven't seen anyone mention Hogan missing the 18th green at the Masters on sunday when leading by two. He deliberatly missed the green short and pitched up,and ultimatley he got is 4 anyway.  I belive in the interview he said all he needed was five to win, being short of the green and therefore  all the trouble ruled out six..  Too bad just winning the British Open wasn't enough for Jean VandeVelde.  Although I know he was trying to hit it in the grandsand on his 2nd..shame, you don't get too many chances to win the British Open.     I think on the first at Pine Valley the target should be the front third, and the exact center of the green. In other words don't think left or right, but center and short of middle.  You can still get to the trouble on the sides 5-10 yards short of the green.  I definitely think short or front fringe on the 5th, especially before they mellowed that green some what. Although it is still brutal.  A classic par 3 and a half.  You feel fantastic with 2, real good with 3,and it can be alot worse than 4.  I think Tiger on the 17th at this years Masters was certainly going for front right.  He knew with a one shot lead that over and long right is 5,at least .  One final one Raymond Floyd in the 85? open at Shinnecock( probably my favorite course), said he deliberately hit it into the front Bunker on the 15th.  It was down wind and the green was an absolute rock, and he didn't think he could the hold green.  He knocked it in the front bunker,blasted to I think a foot, and went on to win.  Definitley one of the best thinkers out there.  Having played alot of golf in my day there are certainly times when the greens are so hard You are just trying to hit it where you think you can get it up and down, and alot of the times bunkers are the place to be.

[DB3]

  Mr Mike Cirba:
 I think your 3 points are right on. I would add course conditions where you have no chance of holding the green.   Although I think more often then not that would apply to tournament golf. Links golf too.

[TEPaul]

Deliberately missing greens!? That's an interesting one.

There certainly would be a number of occasions in match play when I would  seriously consider missing a green like PVGC's #1 or Meron's #12 green short if my opponent happened to hit his approach off either side or long.

We've all heard the term front pins are tough pins and I do remember a time in the Coleman quite a few years ago when the greens at Seminole were really fast and on a hole like #2 with a real front pin the best policy really was to try to come up just short of the green (this was stroke play). If you got even a few feet past that front pin or off to the side of it there was no doubt that even a chip from just in front would have been easier than a putt from behind the pin.

It takes a lot of concentration and will power for an amateur to do this (even a good amateur) but there is no doubt it probably would be the most sensible policy and statistically the best thing to do with the green speeds they had.

[Ben C. Dewar]

I thought of another, I think it was Justin Leonard who from the green side bunker played back to the fairway to pitch to the green.  That was the Honours wasn't it?

[rjbay]

Having caddied and played many times a the "Valley", I have to agree with short on numero uno, ditto #15 when greens are really fast. Interesting that Byron Nelson said on #3 that if the pin is back go right at it as the back bunker is much better than putting over the crest in the green. I might argue this one except that his tournament record is slightly better than mine. Good post!

[Adam_Messix]

The only situation where I aimed to a location other than the green was on the 5th hole at Wade Hampton when the hole was cut in the front right, just over the false front.  I watched the other two players in my group putt their balls of the green whereas I had a pretty simple chip straight up hill.

This will no longer be the case as of August 15th as the green is going to be rebuilt.

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