[Mike_Cirba]

In the thread about lower back green shelves, Tom MacWood recalls implementing a strategy of purposefully missing the greens at Pinehurst National.  

Are there any greens you play that you miss on purpose?  In other words, it's much easier to be off the green than on it but in the wrong position.  I'm thinking of one I played this year at Soaring Eagles GC in NY where the 6th green there is so severe back to front (and open in front) that I would never attempt to put my second shot on the green again.  I would purposefully aim for the front fringe.

I'm also thinking that at Tom Doak's Stonewall, there are greens where depending on the hole location, you just can't be in the wrong spot (I had 46 putts there!   but loved it anyhow).  

I can think of hole locations at NGLA, particularly on 7 & 11 where the smart play might be "off" the green.  

Anyone else?

[Mike_Cirba]

And although this might be blasphemy, I truly believe that the only sane approach to the first at Pine Valley is one that stays short of the putting surface (not due to the green contours, but due to a torturous punishment awaiting for misses to the sides and long.  

Although I didn't play short on purpose the last time I was there, my ball ended on the front fringe.  From there, I made a no-brainer of 65 feet or so to a back right hole location.  After parring #2 and standing on the 3rd tee at 1-under, I did the only sensible thing.  I yanked one into the trees and took six.

[Scott_Burroughs]

I thought #6 at Soaring Eagles was a par 3 and you want to play your 2nd shot short?

Anyways, the 11th hole at my club (Wake Forest GC in NC) has a severe front pin placement, that I use the flag as the absolute farthest than I can hit, where any mishit will come up a little short, versus being long.  Sometimes being even with the hole instead of below is worse than chipping up, even though it's a steep slope w/ Bermuda rough in front.

[Mike_Cirba]

Scott;

Oops...I meant #5 at Soaring Eagles.  Would you agree with my strategy there?

[Scott_Burroughs]

Yes, as long as it's on the correct side of the huge "tube" hump running through the middle of the green from front to back.  A little like #17 at Pebble, but Pebble's isn't as rounded (tubular), more pointed.

[Mike_Cirba]

Scott;

I hear you there!  In fact, to borrow an 80's term, that whole greensite is "tubular".

[Dennis_Harwood]

No 9 at LACC(North) when the hole is set in the narrow neck between the two bunkers-- A shot off the green, but short of the bunkers, is the "proper" play--Anything hole high but in either bunker or on the green beyond the bunkers is "dead".

[Ben Hogan]

The 11th at Augusta.

[Craig Van Egmond]

 
Depending on the pin placement I would seriously considering missing the 17th green at Crystal Downs. With the wind howling and the green speeds, I don't think you can keep the ball on the green with the pin on the front. Nobody in our foursome did better than a 6 on that hole. I think if you miss it to the right and then hit a really good chip you might get a bogey. I'd love to try playing that one hole over and over again to figure it out.

[Jeff_McDowell]

There were many instances at Pinehurst #2 where I wished I had played short of the green instead of trying to hit pin high. I would inevitable slide off the green and end up with a nasty downhiller.

[Ran Morrissett]

Great, great topic.

The fact that many professional golfers intentionally miss the 17th green at St. Andrews is one of that hole's most alluring attributes while the fact that there is no place to miss the 17th green at TPC Sawgrass is what makes that hole a strategic clunker.

[Mike Nuzzo]

The 4th hole at the Houstonian has an inverted pyramid shaped green.  With the pin in front the effective landing area is tiny.
I just aim for the back center.  The hole could have been made much better if it were more of a sloping (back to front) green.  In which case i would aim short right.  The bunker that pinches in from the left side is tough, but the area that pinches the right side of the green, while 5 feet below the putting surface, isn't a tough up and down.  To make it a good hole it would need to intimidate me from aiming right also (thick, thick rough), which would force me to go short with a front pin placement.
If only!?

[ForkaB]

Ran

If the 17th at TPC is a "strategic clunker" so were Vince Lombardi's Green Bay Packers.  They weren't and it isn't.  Sometimes (actually a lot of the time) "strategy" involves "blocking and tackling" and being able to do so under the most severe competitive pressure.  The 17th at TPC and the 17th at TOC are very similar in demanding this of the player.

[JamieS]

How about the 18th at Merion? Under normal to firm conditions it is very difficult to hit the green in the first place. If you do get a ball to land in the middle it will probably end up over the green or on the back edge. Still, this is a better place than short of the green. Standing in the fairway you must eliminate the front 1/3 of the green from the equation. Any shot that comes up short of the middle, you'll be left with a 20-40 yard pitch shot over and through the swale and large hill (that is the front of the green) to a green that slopes away. You have a much better chance at saving a par from beyond the green as opposed to short.

[ForkaB]

As I've mentioned before, a lot of good players will deliberately play a 9-iron or wedge short of the 180 yard 2nd at Dornoch, just to avoid the unspeakable horrors that can occur if you miss the green right, left or long.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike,

It was my understanding that when Billy Casper won the USOPEN at Winged Foot, he deliberately played short of the third hole, chipped up and made his par every day.

[Wayne_Freedman]

We have a several difficult false fronts dropping off the greens at Richmond CC and yes, we will play short of them, but only when dealing with red flags.

This can be a delicate strategy because our fairways are kikiyu, so any run-up shots are always going to be dicey.

[Steve Wilson]

Patrick

If you recall Hubert Green did the same thing at Southern Hills when he won the Open there.  Only he made three pars and a birdie.

Mike,
  What's the big deal about this.  I miss twelve or fourteen greens every round so I can practice my short game...yeah, yeah, that's how it happens.  
 But seriously, I have done this (on one hole no one's ever heard of here)  because the configuration of the green made it impossible to putt the ball from half of the green without going through the fringe and close to a bunker.  Not a real good design or a bad pin position.  Still long right was an easy uphill chip or pitch compared to flirting with a bunker on a putt.

[John_Sheehan]

Very interesting topic. As a side light--

When is this type of hole a "good" design, and when is it not?

What elements or features working together make this type of hole work (TOC #17?)?

[aclayman]

Missing greens is an art, especially when your playing gottcha's. But in the context of this thread I often will tell a player that I would rather see them short of the green than past the flag and usually it is understood. I don't discriminate between the players ability either. If they are not capable of playing the shot I will always encourage the lay-up.

[Frank_Pasquale]

I have read that Curtis Strange intentionally put his approach on the 72nd hole of the 1988 US Open at The Country Club into the front bunker.  He was a solid bunker player and left himself below the hole, which was front right.

Who can forget that grin on his face when he put his bunker shot to within a foot and a half, to secure the playoff.

[Sri Bunga Raya]

My home course (Lu Lu CC – Donald Ross) has a few greens with “false fonts”, it is absolutely necessary to “miss the green” with front pin placements on these greens.  Anything beyond the pin (out side of “give me” range) is flirting with disaster

[GarySmith]

I guarantee you that Strange did not deliberately play into the front bunker at Brookline's 18th.

[Ben C. Dewar]

One of my favorite golf stories was about the sixth at Seminole.

My caddy (who used to caddie for Hogan) said he used to play to the front bunker on the sixth depending on where the pin was.  My caddie said the first time he asked him for yardage to the center of the bunker, he thought he was joking.

Hogan said that he could make 4 or better from the front bunker than he could from the green.

I played for the bunker and almost holed out my sand shot for birdie.

[Paul Turner]

From Dan King's report on the 16th at Pacific Dunes, the best tactic with a strong downwind breeze might be to let the ball chase through to that unusual chipping tongue at the back (fairly easy chip back compared with the bunkers).    

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