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Peter Galea

Reviving "chocolate drops"
« on: July 14, 2001, 07:03:00 PM »
We just built a new tee on the fourth hole and had some debris to deal with. Rather than haul it off or make some "framing mounds", I've decided to put in a couple of chocolate drops. What do you think, archaic, tacky or a good idea?

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Reviving "chocolate drops"
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2001, 07:23:00 PM »
Depends on where you are going to put them???

I prefer em in cookies...

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

aclayman

Reviving "chocolate drops"
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2001, 07:37:00 PM »
Pete- With some native grasses?
I bet their delicious.

Pete G.

Reviving "chocolate drops"
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2001, 07:53:00 PM »
I've had to watch my sugar, so I think the'll be off to the side. Just short of the carry bunker.

aclayman

Reviving "chocolate drops"
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2001, 08:13:00 AM »
Sounds cool. How is the tree removal being viewed?

Pete G.

Reviving "chocolate drops"
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2001, 08:22:00 AM »
Pruning, not removal.

aclayman

Reviving "chocolate drops"
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2001, 12:01:00 PM »
I was totally confused mia copa. I was mistaken.

Mike_Rewinski

Reviving "chocolate drops"
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2001, 04:10:00 PM »
Pete, will they look out of character, we have put in many of them but then our course is a Raynor layout and he used them a lot.

Birdieboy

Reviving "chocolate drops"
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2001, 04:21:00 PM »
Be careful, it could end up a mess like Nicklaus did at Grand Cypress and Lockahotchee (misspelled)?  

Also it sounds like you are only going to add a few of them, is it consistent with the rest of the terrain?


TEPaul

Reviving "chocolate drops"
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2001, 04:41:00 PM »
Pete Galea:

It sounds like an interesting idea and I don't know where you are but if possible you should come and see what Coore and Crenshaw are doing at Hidden Creek (Egg Harbor, NJ) in that particular vein.

Mike Rewinski, you and Westhampton really don't count. I don't think any of us can really figure out how Raynor did what he did so well. For a really flat site there are all kinds of golf features popping out of the ground on your course--but they work!

I really wanted to respond to this thread because I was walking around Hidden Creek (under construction) with Kye Goalby last week and there was all this material piled here and there in random mounds and such. Kye got fixated on these things and said they were going to use them for mounding and such (Chocolate drop in nature) and I said, no way, that would be odd on a very low profile "heathland" style course. I even bet him a lunch on it or maybe a week of lunches.

Well, he was right, they're going to use it for just that type look. Then on the next nine Kye sort of changed his mind and said if they were going to use it that much they should think about trying to use it in a minimal fashion maybe on the fairways and such and tie the whole look together.

I think he might be right about that. I think Kye Goalby has fantastic instinct about many things to do with golf concept and things like this! As soon as I say that some architect out there will tell me that I shouldn't say that about Kye Goalby because it's insulting to other architects out there or at least I ought to get around more. Maybe they're right but I still will probably think Kye Goalby has great instinct on things like that!


Peter Galea

  • Karma: +0/-0
Reviving "chocolate drops"
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2001, 07:51:00 PM »
I've seen numerous photos of chocolate drops, the only ones I saw in person were at Rip Van Winkle, a Ross 9 holer in upstate NY.
Underneath were probably rocks from fairway clearing. I like features which serve a purpose, nothing superfulous(sp?).
My course is from the 20's and while there are no drops I think they will fit, and they will serve their intended purpose. I will not pepper the property with them.
TEPaul, I'm in California but will spend 9 days in the New York area the first week of August. I'm looking forward to it.
"chief sherpa"

aclayman

Reviving "chocolate drops"
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2001, 08:58:00 AM »
Pg- Remember the  chocolate drop you pointed out on the third hole, here? It seemed to be placed off the beaten track to restrict access, to the green, from an errant drive. At least thats how I percieve it. The hole is a narrow short 4 par with trees that end just near the ch. drop approx. 100 yds from green.

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Reviving "chocolate drops"
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2001, 06:08:00 AM »
What flavor of chocolate drops are we talking about?
My experience with drops are ones that are too tall (over 6 feet), too fat and too steep to advance the ball.  Maintenance nightmare as well.
No good.

I have never seen chocolate drops like the ones in the introductory chap. in "Golden Age".  (picture of geometric design from 1900)

Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Reviving "chocolate drops"
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2001, 09:39:00 AM »
Well this thread is getting serious, so now I think I'd like to chime in a more forthright response.  Pete, I think you mentioned you have Geoff's book.  Are you really talking about chocolate drops like on pages 2 and 4 as Mike Nuzzo points out.  YOu really haven't said where you would pile up these spoils.  Are you thinking in a rough area adjacent to a fairway or at outter surrounds area of a green in rough cut?  Or, are you thinking of more subtle moguls that would be within the fairway cut at a strategic spot to challenge uneven stances or unpredictable rolls through a landing area?  Also, you have the option to tie in a chocolate drop/mound to bunker banks for a more steep and curled effect.  But, remember the word most often associated with "chocolate drops" in Geoff's book is "dreadful".   As far as I know from the pictures of PV that you have sent me, it doesn't look like features such as chocolate drops would be natural to your site and at msot I would only think in terms of softened ones like moguls or tie-in mounds with bunkers.  
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

THuckaby2

Reviving "chocolate drops"
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2001, 09:48:00 AM »
Hi Pete - bear with me here, but although I've played your course a lot recently and I'm usually pretty good at this, I just can't get a good mental picture of where the new tee on #4 is and where the chocolate drops would go...

First, #4 is the relatively straight par 5 that goes along the fence, correct?  I was picturing the next hole (short par 4) when we discussed this before, I think... For some reason the cool par 3 #3 escapes me when I picture the opening of your course.

So anyway, if I have the hole correct, can you give some detail as to where the tee went and where the drops will go? I think it's a cool idea but damn, I just want to be able to picture it!

The ones in Geoff's book are indeed hideous, but they are supposed to be - examples of horrible early architectural features.  But a decent non-hideous modern example can be found at Cinnabar Hills - #9 on the Canyon nine.  At first I thought those were horribly out of place, but they've grown on me over time - the approach to the green would be pretty darn boring w/o them.

TH


Khris Januzik

Reviving "chocolate drops"
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2001, 01:32:00 PM »
I keep a photo of the chocolat drops (or pyramids as they called 'em) that were here in Pinehurst on hand just as a "quit your griping" shock treatment. These stood about waist high on a woman and were set up in bowling pin fashion, not easy to get out of. Bendelow used them too....a couple might be interesting.

joe zaepfel

Reviving "chocolate drops"
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2001, 01:40:00 PM »
Chapter 31 of A.W.Tillinghast's The Course Beautiful discusses mound work in detail.

aclayman

Reviving "chocolate drops"
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2001, 02:55:00 PM »
I have not seen the new tee or drops yet, but I would like to guess where they are.
Could they possibly be on the right side even with the beginning of the fairway?
Towards those two old beautiful trees that guard the long right of #3???

Pete G.

Reviving "chocolate drops"
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2001, 02:59:00 PM »
Yeah Adam, and they have your name on them!
Not placed yet!

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