Greens with a lower back shelf

[Patrick_Mucci]

db3,

Only mild short rough, ideal for pitching and chipping lies beyond the 7th green at
NGLA

[Mike Hendren]

Jeff Mingay's comments are spot on with respect to George Thomas.  From Golf Architecture in America:  "There are many glaring errors seen on most of our courses, and one of the commonest mistakes is to have a green with a wide opening in front of it, and difficulties nearby, expecially beyond the green, or at its far sides; for a man who has fallen short of the green is thereby enabled easily to run his ball up to the pin, whereas the man who has made a bold stroke, possibly lighting on the green with his ball, and running over the green, is given a more difficult lie after a finer effort.  To offset this situation, it is advisable in many cases where there are long second shots to a green, to make a fairway beyond the green, so that the man who goes over has at least as good a chance to play back and near the hole as the man who falls short after an indifferent stroke."

[paul albanese]

I forget which hole exactly -- but, Karsten Creek in Oklahoma has a very dramatic one of these holes -- the tier from front to back is about 2 to 3 feet

Every time I think of designing one of these -- my memory always goes back to that hole

[Patrick Hitt]

I don't know if the punchbowl 12th at Chicago Golf qualifies, but i seem to remember having an uphill put back to the hole on the front half.

[T_MacWood]

My memory is shot. Doesn't the 1st at Lost Dunes have a back lower area, and I'm not sure it falls into this catagory but the 14th at Prarie Dunes has what might be called a lower back shelf.

Just for the record, I hate the greens at Pinehurst National. I recall 3-putting early and often (I don't remember I may have also 4-putted) on those rediculously stepped greens--very goofy and unnatural. It wasn't until I missed a few greens and got up and down relatively easily (taking the steps out of the equation), that I instituted a strategy of deliberately missing the greens--I chipped in for a birdie on 18 for a 79.

[Jeff_Mingay]

I (re) played Whitman's Wolf Creek (Ponoka, Alberta) yesterday, and the 1st hole -- a medium length, somewhat downhill par 4 -- has a really neat lower back shelf at left.

Forgot about that one until yesterday  

(Now back to listening to Big Sugar's new album. Pick it up... it's good!)  

[RJ_Daley]

Come to think of it, Axeland and Proctor went for a front to back lower shelf idea on #4 Wild Horse and #5 Bayside.  The Bayside hole is actually about 6-8ft drop from upper right to lower left.

[RJ_Daley]

Another lower back shelf on one of the best golf holes of all time, IMHO, is #13 at Crystal Downs.  I can't believe I left that one out in my ramblings above.  And, in that same area, The 13th at Kingsley club has one of the most unussual I have ever seen.  It has a lower and higher back shelf.  The right rear is so low, it is like a basement quadrant, and the back left is a poop deck of an appendage overlooking the back rear lower galley. I actually dreamt of playing that short par 4 hole recently with pin on back left but my approach on back right fringe.  I woke up screaming...