Merion- favorite/best holes

[BJ Lewis]

In the past week I have seen a couple threads on or mentioning Merion and it got me thinking; althouh we've had thorough discussions about Merion, the best holes on the course have not been so defined. Maybe this is because although each hole has individuality, they all flow as part of the greater course, no hole being greater than another. While he easy picks seem to be 5,16,and 18, my favorite holes are 1,8, and 14 because of th subtle precision and thinking involved with each shot and stroke on each of those holes. What do you guys think?

[JamieS]

BJ,
#1 at Merion is my favorite starting hole in golf. The overall look and strategy of the hole really set the tone for things to come...plus how often to you get to tee it up 20 feet from people eating their Snapper Soup and Sandwich. It's a great way to start the round.

[Fred C]

I absolutely love #4, #8, #12, and #14.

[TEPaul]

The fact that you even ask a question like this is testimony to the greatness of Merion. Merion is one of the few courses in the world, in my opinion, that has 18 outstanding holes. They are each unique in a specific hole analysis but all combined in their individuality and variety they make the course the great one that it is.

So I would be hesitant to say which one would be my absolute favorite. But I would say that if any architect finds a natural landform and natural features that are arranged in the natural way that makes up #5 Merion, by all means leave them just as they are and sing Hallelulah!

In fact, I have found a natural landform as good as #5 Merion. It's absolutely identical except for the fact it's the mirror image!! It is all there in total similarity--the only architectural question is would you rather draw your ball off a sloping fairway on a long par 4 against a creek or would you rather fade your ball off a sloping fairway against a creek?

See what I mean about the fascination of the variations and differences in golf architecture?

[JamieS]

TEPaul,
The mirror image of the 5th? I would love to see that hole built. Since the majority of average golfers fade or slice the ball, imagine the fun you could have watching them tackle a hole like that. I'll sign up for the grounds crew to build that one...well...off to the garage to find my shovel and grass seed.
BTW, had the chance to play this weekend with one of your cohorts at Gulph Mills, Jim Decker, he is a very nice gentleman, we had a good time. Although I don't think he wants any part of the "C" Nine, any time soon.

[archie]

Never really ought of the holes individally at Merion, just love the cumulative effect. My favorites might be #'s 1&15, both relatively easy holes but perfectly  placed. One has just enough bite to give you a jump start into this marvelous golf course. 15 is similr as it is the perfect segue into the potential abyss to follow at 16,17 & 18.

[TEPaul]

JamieS:

You don't really even need to see the mirror image of Merion's #5 I spoke of built! Just come on out with me sometime and I will show it to you in its natural state! You can't help but take it all in, appreciate it and see what I mean. It's all there! The only thing left to think about is the setting of the tee boxes--that might be the only variation--but things like this I really don't think should have to be identical. This hole has it's own perfect tee-site--it's much higher and the angle of the tee and the creek is not as direct--but that might be better actually for a fading hole!! The green site though is just as good and intense, particularly since the creek comes in a little more between the tee shot landing area and the green site and there are no trees on the second half of the hole.

[jim_lewis]

I think Merion is a great golf course with many outstanding holes. My personal favorites are #1, #5, #9, and #11. It is probably blasphemy to suggest that Merion could be better, but the one thing that keeps it from being one of the top 3 OR 4 courses I have ever played is the steady stream of traffic(including commercial vehicles) than runs though the course, especially along side #2 and behind #10.

In my view, Pine Valley has 18 outstanding holes. There are a few holes at Merion they I can't call "outstanding". They include #2 and #7. Heck, I even think #18 is more famous than great.

Having dared to find some minor fault with this great course, I still say it is among my all time top 10.

[simon]

i think 13,14, and 15 are three outstanding golf holes

[BillV]

I really like #14. Personal taste, but the fairway movement, bunkering, placement of OB, green complex, deception it just rings my bell.  5 and 12 come in 2nd.

As I posted on NGLA/poetry, what is the weakest, too?

[JJ]

I also agree that the 14th is the best, yet most underated hole on the East Course. I think it is on of the best medium length par 4s in the country and it falls at a perfect time in the round and sets up the demanding finish perfectly.

[Mike_Cirba]

Bill V;

I'll bite.  I think the weakest hole is the 6th, not that there is anything particularly wrong with it, but there is also nothing particularly stellar.

Oh wait...that's the hole where I found myself tearing up, after shaking a case of the nerves and striking my first solid shot of the day that found the green center above the false-front ridge.  

Nevermind.  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Mike,
How could you say that?

Do you remember me turning to you and asking you to look back at the contouring of the fairway?

But that was all then, and this is NOW. That course no longer exists. Taking away one of its most valuble commoditees--The Bunkers, did this.

It is now Aronomink.

[TEPaul]

Hold on! What's the problem with Aronomink? Are you refering to the time RTJ blew through there on one of his rapid remodel missions or the changes that were made in preparation for the PGA Championship which never happened, thanks to that racist dude from 'Bama?

Ron Prichard is on the restoration job over there and the restoration plan and what's been done so far looks pretty damn good. Does somebody know something I don't know and I live about two miles from Aronomink?

If the problem here is that MacDonald & Co. are the contractors at Aronomink and that means that the bunkers of Aronomink are automatically going to go down the tubes, well, then, maybe the subject should be looked into just a little more.

The bunkering at Aronomink is not the bunkering at Merion and it never has been. That is a huge distinction to keep in mind! HUGE!!

[BJ Lewis]

I have not played at Merion in years. Could someoe please outline all the recent changes that have been made in the last few years which cause one to note that the original course "does not even exist anymore."
Thank you  

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom Paul;

Given Prichard's sensitive restoration work to date, I'm sure that he'll be certain to stay on top of what is happening in the bunker restore at Aronomink in an attempt to best preserve what Ross built.  

How far along are they in this effort?  How are they looking?

[Mike_Cirba]

BJ Lewis;

What Tommy Naccarato is referring to is a large scale effort well underway at Merion involving bunkers, trees, tees, fairway widths, and possibly conditioning.

The most visible feature, the bunkering, is about 70% completed.  The bunkers have been completely reconstructed.  

I've commented enough in the past, and I don't feel like getting my BP up again this morning.  Perhaps others who have seen the work can comment with their impressions, both pro and con.  

[Majestic Bunker]

I used to be a Majestic Bunker located on the hallowed grounds of Merion. I used to have a beautiful white face with rough edges, scattered with broom grass and a bit of gorse. I was told recently I needed to go under the knife for some cosmetic surgery...what I shame. Unfortunately, I now don't look or feel like my former self, I have been transformed into something more modern than classic. I am now just a depressed bunker on a great course...I think I need some therapy from Dr. Katz.

[BillV]

MikeC

Actually the candidates I might propose for weakest are 6,8,13,18 and be laughed off the site   by a proponent of each hole.  Six might be my choice too, but it just illustrates the point. It is the sign of the most top notch courses.

It is the same exercise at NGLA, Pine Valley and Shinnecock to start a short list in my opinion. It is easier at Pebble Beach, for example and SFGC; therefore my undeserved labeling as a California basher.

This is how you find the 9.5's and 10's in my subjective, unsolicited opinion.

[BJ Lewis]

The approach  shot to #8 is so great that i dont understand how one could think it is a weak hole. However, like you said, everyone has there own subjective opinion.

[Blinded]

Majestic Blunder..er..Bunker;

I have to confess that I've seen your post-surgical plight and at this point, I don't even think another more-qualified surgeon could restore your former glory.    

Picture Grace Kelly turned into Christina Aguilera.    

[GarySmith]

Mr. TEPaul,

I think it is pretty chickenshit to blame the "racist dude from 'Bama" for Aronimink losing the PGA Championship. Aronimink had the choice, I do believe, to come up to the PGA's membership requirement for holding the event, and chose not to do so. If I'm not mistaken, I believe Merion withdrew from holding the U.S. Woman's Open at about the same time because the club could not or would not meet the membership requirements of the USGA. (of course I'm not implying that there are any racist/sexist beings in the City of Brotherly Love, we all know that that sort is way down South in Dixie, don't we?)

Sorry for being off topic, fellows.

[jim_lewis]

Give 'em Hell, Gary.

If Shoal Creek were located in Philadelphia instead of Birmingham, the fact that they had no minority members probably never would have been discussed.

Anheiser Busch (along with Toyota and some others) withdrew as sponsors of the PGA telecast pretending to disapprove of Shoal Creek's membership policies. Then the following year St. Louis Country Club, the home club of the Busch family, withdrew as hosts of a senior tour event rather than amending their own membership policy. Talk about hypocrits. I have not touched a BUD since.

[TEPaul]

Jim Lewis:

IF is a very accomodating word in golf and anywhere else, isn't it?

IF Shoal Creek were located in Philadelphia..., IF Shoal Creek were located in Massachusetts...., IF Shoal Creek were located anywhere else....for that matter!

Shoal Creek is located where Shoal Creek is located, period.

Gary Smith:

Go ahead and call anything you want chickenshit that resulted from that remark by that racist dude from Shoal Creek. I know what happened at Aronomink in the aftermath of that remark by that guy with the instant policy change of the PGA and the USGA.

Aronomink had no problem admitting blacks or minorities into their club, they just weren't going to have the process shoved down their throats by something that resulted from that remark to prevent a firestorm of controversy caused by that guy so they chose to drop the PGA at a considerable lose to themsleves financially. They offered to put blacks or minorities into the membership process---just like anybody else!!, but no, that wasn't good enough for the PGA--it had to be done instantly so they could all avoid the firestorm of controversy that resulted from that guy's remark! Aronomink did the principled thing under the circumstances by dropping the tournament instead of caving in to a dictated policy like that and then they admitted minorities in the membership process they use for everyone else!

I couldn't care less if Shoal Creek G.C. was in Alabama, New York, Massachusetts or California. I have no real idea what that guy from Shoal Creek really thinks of Blacks and minorities, all I know is what he said and it's fairly logical to assume that what he said is what he thinks.

Next you'll probably try to convince me that what he said in the end resulted in being a better thing for America and American golf courses. Maybe you can stretch it to include that the ensuing history actually makes him an upstanding and fair-minded American! That would be clever logic indeed!

I don't give a damn what state the man lived in, he will always be a racist jerk to me. I'm not trying to campaign one way or another for the membership policies of golf clubs in America but what was the Shoal Creek incident was the aftermath of what that guy said. Whatever he thought and whereever he lived he should have kept his goddamn mouth shut!

[jim_lewis]

Tom:

I agree completely that Hall Thompson was stupid and never should have said what he said, no matter what he believed. He made his comment in response to a question posed by a media interviewer as to why Shoal Creek had no minority members. If he had a brain in his head he would have anticiapted that question and had a much better response.

My point was that many tournaments had been held at clubs around America that had no minority members, and I don't recall that being raised as an issue before by the PGA or the USGA. The fact that Shoal Creek is located in Alabama made it an obvious and easy target.

As a Southerner I am sensitive to remarks that suggest that racism is a Southern disease, when, unfortunately, racism exists all over the country. I also am offended by hypocrits like the Busch family who take a "holier than thou" public posture while being no less racist than those they condemn.

Since this really has nothing to do with architecture, I prefer not to persue it further and invite Ran to delete this and my previous post.